rare kind of dapur

semar · 20th July 2008, 10:40 AM

hello i never see this type of keris
but is this keris reshaped ore not i don`t know
pleas let me know you opinion

regards Semar

David · 20th July 2008, 04:41 PM

It looks to me as if it might have been re-worked, but never quite finished, as it is still rather rough with tool marks and all.

Nice hilt, though the mendak looks out of place.

Battara · 20th July 2008, 10:55 PM

Also the ganga is not separate but a line chiseled in to make it look right, thus I agree David - I think it is new and unfinished.

Rick · 21st July 2008, 02:12 AM

Maybe it's just me; but could the wrongko be a reshaped Ladrang form ?

Fascinating piece; the wilah and wrongko with their deep scratches look almost half finished; the jejeran being the exception .

Anyway, a fascinating keris .

[addendum]

Yeah !
You guys are right .
Gonjo iras .
Time to visit the eye doctor ......

David · 21st July 2008, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Maybe it's just me; but could the wrongko be a reshaped Ladrang form ?

Yeah, i can see that.

Raden Usman Djogja · 21st July 2008, 03:00 AM

dear kerislovers,

Sometimes, we must think why empus obeyed customs and traditions. Though, when empus trespassed their customs and tradition, there was no punishments.

Then, when we found creations presumed made by empus, perhaps it was clear to us that most empus obeyed their customs and traditions. Any creation which seems too far from pakem, we must be very alert.

Perhaps, amongst empus there was a common conciousness, just after becoming a good followers, they had a small room to make inovation (just a smaal room, not the whole aspects). Because of this common consciousness, from generation to generation people paid respect to empus.

Nowadays, when factually empus are very poor, people still pay fully respect to them. However, some people believe that empus were extinct since 1942/45 (during the japanese invasion in south east asia). At least there is discontinuity before and after WWII.

OeS

ganjawulung · 21st July 2008, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

It looks to me as if it might have been re-worked, but never quite finished, as it is still rather rough with tool marks and all.

Nice hilt, though the mendak looks out of place.

Agree with you, David. But I am still thinking, whether this type of warangka is the type of "wulan tumanggal" or "penanggalan" sheath (half-moon) or not. Wulan tumanggal, used to be the warangka in Demak Sultanate (Islamic state in the North Coast of Jawa 1480-1550) era. This was quite similar to the warangka of Bangkinang or keris panjang in Sumatera...

This is just another opinion. (Pics: Wulan Tumanggal from my collection and also graphic sketch of Wulan Tumanggal with Rajamala hilt in one book...)

A. G. Maisey · 21st July 2008, 05:13 AM

You beat me to the draw Pak Gonjo. I had this ready to post and then went and had lunch.

Anyway---yes, this is a legitimate form of wrongko, it is wulan tumanggal, or wulan tinanggal, or pananggalan, or penanggalan, or according to some people, tanggalan.

I personally think that only wulan tumanggal is correct, which means "crescent moon".

It is an old form, found on the North Coast of Jawa, as Pak Gonjo advises, but it was also a form found in Central Jawa from the time of early Mataram through to the partition of Jawa.

Anything we might say about the blade is just speculation, but I'll throw my little bit of speculation into the ring too:- notice the way that the pamor has wandered off to one side, and is very badly distributed?

I reckon that the maker got this far with the blade, saw clearly what he had, threw his hands up in the air and said "b***er this! I'm not putting any more time into this thing!".

The jejeran is beautiful.

ganjawulung · 21st July 2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It is an old form, found on the North Coast of Jawa, as Pak Gonjo advises, but it was also a form found in Central Jawa from the time of early Mataram through to the partition of Jawa.

You are right Alan, even some old people also said that this type of warangka used to be worn by "ulamas" (moslem clerks) in Mataram era.

20th July 2008, 10:40 AM	#1
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	rare kind of dapur hello i never see this type of keris but is this keris reshaped ore not i don`t know pleas let me know you opinion regards Semar Attached Images

20th July 2008, 04:41 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	It looks to me as if it might have been re-worked, but never quite finished, as it is still rather rough with tool marks and all. Nice hilt, though the mendak looks out of place.

20th July 2008, 10:55 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Also the ganga is not separate but a line chiseled in to make it look right, thus I agree David - I think it is new and unfinished.

21st July 2008, 02:12 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Maybe it's just me; but could the wrongko be a reshaped Ladrang form ? Fascinating piece; the wilah and wrongko with their deep scratches look almost half finished; the jejeran being the exception . Anyway, a fascinating keris . [addendum] Yeah ! You guys are right . Gonjo iras . Time to visit the eye doctor ......

21st July 2008, 03:00 AM	#6
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	dear kerislovers, Sometimes, we must think why empus obeyed customs and traditions. Though, when empus trespassed their customs and tradition, there was no punishments. Then, when we found creations presumed made by empus, perhaps it was clear to us that most empus obeyed their customs and traditions. Any creation which seems too far from pakem, we must be very alert. Perhaps, amongst empus there was a common conciousness, just after becoming a good followers, they had a small room to make inovation (just a smaal room, not the whole aspects). Because of this common consciousness, from generation to generation people paid respect to empus. Nowadays, when factually empus are very poor, people still pay fully respect to them. However, some people believe that empus were extinct since 1942/45 (during the japanese invasion in south east asia). At least there is discontinuity before and after WWII. OeS

21st July 2008, 05:13 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	You beat me to the draw Pak Gonjo. I had this ready to post and then went and had lunch. Anyway---yes, this is a legitimate form of wrongko, it is wulan tumanggal, or wulan tinanggal, or pananggalan, or penanggalan, or according to some people, tanggalan. I personally think that only wulan tumanggal is correct, which means "crescent moon". It is an old form, found on the North Coast of Jawa, as Pak Gonjo advises, but it was also a form found in Central Jawa from the time of early Mataram through to the partition of Jawa. Anything we might say about the blade is just speculation, but I'll throw my little bit of speculation into the ring too:- notice the way that the pamor has wandered off to one side, and is very badly distributed? I reckon that the maker got this far with the blade, saw clearly what he had, threw his hands up in the air and said "b***er this! I'm not putting any more time into this thing!". The jejeran is beautiful.