The Purpose of Keris Panjang

[eli]

From my knowledge the therory of combating rapiers has been but to rest do to the short tang on a keris which would make it easy to break during a fight. And many have also commented on the overall lack of efficency it would have compared to a rapier. Finally, if we look at where we see keris Panjang( often with royality or high ranking offcials) it just doesnt add up for me.

[kai]

Hello Eli,

From my knowledge the therory of combating rapiers has been but to rest do to the short tang on a keris which would make it easy to break during a fight.

This assumption usually seems to be made by people not well versed in the use of keris as a weapon. Sure, having to face someone skilled with a rapier is a scary thought. Having to face a skilled Pesilat is not a nice thought either...

And many have also commented on the overall lack of efficency it would have compared to a rapier.

I don't think that we should imagine a SEA warrior switching to European style fencing. While the old rapiers were quite sturdy, they are fairly specialized weapons as are keris; a little bit of extra reach might come in handy...

Finally, if we look at where we see keris Panjang( often with royality or high ranking offcials) it just doesnt add up for me.

Well, the rank of file were usually armed with swords of the pedang or klewang type.

This hypothesis is not my favorite, too - yet it needs to be discussed seriously and not just dismissed out of hand.

Another line of thought could be that the gentry wanted to display that they had blades resembling rapiers even if they were not meant to be used against Europeans, at least not in a duel-like situation. So they could be mainly status blades and still owing their development to early contacts with Europeans.

BTW, what are the oldest keris panjang known? Any pics?

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Another line of thought could be that the gentry wanted to display that they had blades resembling rapiers even if they were not meant to be used against Europeans, at least not in a duel-like situation. So they could be mainly status blades and still owing their development to early contacts with Europeans.

This would be more my line of thought. A keris panjang is not at all the same type of weapon as a rapier. This doesn't mean that handled by the right hand that it could not be an effective weapon. But it would seem to me that if a weapon were to be made in matial response to a European rapier that length would be just one of the considerations. As a status response however, just being longer might be enough.

[eli]

Thank you Kai for explaining the rapier Idea better.
Another thought to think about is its brother forms Anak Along and Bahari, did these forms preceed the Panjang or come after it?

[kai]

Hello Eli,

Another thought to think about is its brother forms Anak Along and Bahari, did these forms preceed the Panjang or come after it?

That's also a question I have been wondering about. There seems to be very little documented on the early keris (outside Jawa), at least in western languages...

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

Regarding keris used for legal execution.

In Bali there are reports of ordinary keris being used for this purpose, and the thrust was straight into the heart, through the ribs.

In Jawa ordinary keris were used, but I have also seen, and own, some Javanese keris that are Javanese versions of a keris panjang.I do not know the purpose of these Javanese long keris, but it is certain they could not have been used as items of dress.

I have in my collection a Brunei keris which seems to be a normal version of the Brunei Moro-style keris; this keris was used for state executions in Brunei from---I think---1842.

[PenangsangII]

Hello all,

I agree with Kai that despite the panjang's use as a status wear and excecution implement, it's still battle worthy.

According to Malay blade culture, weapons especially keris including the panjang, are not to be clashed with another weapon. That being said, the panjang is used as a weapon by employing silat principle (which I believe is very hard to be demonstrated here in the forum) whereby the keris wielders normally fight in circular motions. I think the best analogy is if we can think of western boxing - feint, duck, jab etc without having to block opponent's strikes.

The use of pasikutan sized blade is slightly different although the principle is the same. A Malay warrior normally will stand side way (sendeng), and will use the sarung to parry another blade (only when necessary) and will strike with the keris with another hand without having to surge forward with the right leg - again, think western boxing.

[kai]

Hello David,

But it would seem to me that if a weapon were to be made in matial response to a European rapier that length would be just one of the considerations.

Which other aspects are you thinking of?

Regards,
Kai