Cost of a saber.... back in Qing dynasty?

KuKulzA28 · 14th July 2010, 04:16 AM

I've been wondering, how much would it have costed the average Chinese bodyguard, in 1800, to buy/commission a dao or shuang dao? How much of his average earnings would that be? What would that be in today's US dollars?

Here is my thought process and how the question came to mind...

I have always wanted a dao or a shuang dao set... someday. For me, at this moment, I can have a quality plain dao made for maybe $400, but a double set of plain sabers would cost me almost $3000. That is because, since demand is low, making all the customized fittings would be costly. Let's suppose the average US citizen makes $30,000 USD a year. A single $400 dao is 1.3% of that American's yearly profit. A $3000 shuang dao would be 10% of their profit, which is HUGE. To be fair, most modern-day security guards and martial arts teachers in the USA don't make much more than $30-40k a year. I hope my math is correct. This got me thinking. How much did it cost a martial artist/combatant, back in the day, to get a quality dao, or quality shuang dao? I am assuming it is a plain, no-nonsense fighting weapon. Obviously different makers would have different prices. Cost of steel, number of apprentices, location, competition, etc all played a role, no bout. However, perhaps demand drove down costs? Also, since dao were being made regularly for self-defense and for battle, the price could not be too prohibitive. I understand many people did NOT own swords because they were peasants and money was better invested in land, irrigation, water buffalo, etc. but the price still had to be affordable for bodyguards and fighters. I'd need to know how much the average bodyguard earned in the 1800s... what would make it even harder to figure out would be if many people paid-in-kind. I know taxes were sometimes paid with rice. It can, perhaps be hard to put a value since the price of rice in 1800 may be very different from 1820 due to inflation or famine, or whatever....

Today, the modern USA bodyguard who is armed, is often issued or allowed to carry a handgun. These often range from $400 to $1000 USD. Understandably, the cost of the handgun affected by different variables such as mass-production. The sword would have been to the Chinese bodyguard as the handgun is today for the security guard, a weapon to save lives (and end lives) if need be. So this would have been a very important investment for the Chinese bodyguard - if he was intent on having a dao instead of some other weapon...

...

Thanks for reading this long winded post. If anyone has insight into this and can comment and add their knowledge, I'd be very appreciative.

Lew · 14th July 2010, 04:31 AM

My guess is 1-2 months salary depending on the smith's reputation. A village made piece would be less of course.

KuKulzA28 · 14th July 2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

My guess is 1-2 months salary depending on the smith's reputation. A village made piece would be less of course.

Wow, that seems like a decent amount. What makes you say that?

Lew · 14th July 2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Wow, that seems like a decent amount. What makes you say that?

Good smiths charged a premium for their work even back then. If a wealthy person who hired a body guard chances are they hired the best not some lacky off the street. A high paid professional would only want the best sword and they cost big $$$. We are not talking about mass produced weapons like a machete this would be simlar to a custom made knife today good ones go for $1200 and up so I figure one months salary should be in the ball park.

KuKulzA28 · 14th July 2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

Good smiths charged a premium for their work even back then. If a wealthy person who hired a body guard chances are they hired the best not some lacky off the street. A high paid professional would only want the best sword and they cost big $$$. We are not talking about mass produced weapons like a machete this would be simlar to a custom made knife today good ones go for $1200 and up so I figure one months salary should be in the ball park.

True, today's high quality knives do cost good money. Even high quality machetes and work blades cost a good 3-10x more than your $10 machete. Good points.

fearn · 15th July 2010, 12:41 AM

A couple more notes: There's the old claim that a knight's sword cost more than a peasant's yearly earnings. If you look at modern day peasants who live on $1-$2/day, and figure that a decent modern sword is around $500-600, you'll see that things really haven't changed much.

While I can't speak to 1800 swords, I've seen some very high quality 1900 era Chinese jian, and I would guess that there was the possibility of high quality weapons in earlier eras.

Third note. Back when I was a kid, I was into RPGs (the games, not the weapons

), and I learned a little trick. That trick is that gold tends to keep its value over time. If something cost a penny then and a dollar now, you can bet that gold's value has also increased 100-fold. This is not strictly true now (thanks to rampant speculation) but it's a good rough-and-ready estimate if you're in a hurry.

With the sword example above, price your item in gold (per gram, ounce, or whatever), find out what gold was valued at in your era of choice, and that will approximately be the value of your item back then. If you don't want to deal with gold, livestock also works fairly well, although I don't know what a pig or cow is selling for right now.

For example, a sword right now is selling at between about 0.3 and 1.0 troy ounces of gold, approximately ($250-$1000) (with better ones going for 2-3 troy ounces). What's that in 1800 Chinese money?

Best,

F

Vaarok · 15th July 2010, 05:43 AM

A cow's worth about a thousand dollars, and it's a pretty stable market value compared to inflation too. Pigs and chickens, however, are dirt cheap, and horses lost their market to the automobile.

The gold or loaf-of-bread trick both work well for calculating values.

14th July 2010, 04:16 AM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Cost of a saber.... back in Qing dynasty? I've been wondering, how much would it have costed the average Chinese bodyguard, in 1800, to buy/commission a dao or shuang dao? How much of his average earnings would that be? What would that be in today's US dollars? Here is my thought process and how the question came to mind... I have always wanted a dao or a shuang dao set... someday. For me, at this moment, I can have a quality plain dao made for maybe $400, but a double set of plain sabers would cost me almost $3000. That is because, since demand is low, making all the customized fittings would be costly. Let's suppose the average US citizen makes $30,000 USD a year. A single $400 dao is 1.3% of that American's yearly profit. A $3000 shuang dao would be 10% of their profit, which is HUGE. To be fair, most modern-day security guards and martial arts teachers in the USA don't make much more than $30-40k a year. I hope my math is correct. This got me thinking. How much did it cost a martial artist/combatant, back in the day, to get a quality dao, or quality shuang dao? I am assuming it is a plain, no-nonsense fighting weapon. Obviously different makers would have different prices. Cost of steel, number of apprentices, location, competition, etc all played a role, no bout. However, perhaps demand drove down costs? Also, since dao were being made regularly for self-defense and for battle, the price could not be too prohibitive. I understand many people did NOT own swords because they were peasants and money was better invested in land, irrigation, water buffalo, etc. but the price still had to be affordable for bodyguards and fighters. I'd need to know how much the average bodyguard earned in the 1800s... what would make it even harder to figure out would be if many people paid-in-kind. I know taxes were sometimes paid with rice. It can, perhaps be hard to put a value since the price of rice in 1800 may be very different from 1820 due to inflation or famine, or whatever.... Today, the modern USA bodyguard who is armed, is often issued or allowed to carry a handgun. These often range from $400 to $1000 USD. Understandably, the cost of the handgun affected by different variables such as mass-production. The sword would have been to the Chinese bodyguard as the handgun is today for the security guard, a weapon to save lives (and end lives) if need be. So this would have been a very important investment for the Chinese bodyguard - if he was intent on having a dao instead of some other weapon... ... Thanks for reading this long winded post. If anyone has insight into this and can comment and add their knowledge, I'd be very appreciative.

14th July 2010, 04:31 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	My guess is 1-2 months salary depending on the smith's reputation. A village made piece would be less of course.

15th July 2010, 12:41 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	A couple more notes: There's the old claim that a knight's sword cost more than a peasant's yearly earnings. If you look at modern day peasants who live on $1-$2/day, and figure that a decent modern sword is around $500-600, you'll see that things really haven't changed much. While I can't speak to 1800 swords, I've seen some very high quality 1900 era Chinese jian, and I would guess that there was the possibility of high quality weapons in earlier eras. Third note. Back when I was a kid, I was into RPGs (the games, not the weapons ), and I learned a little trick. That trick is that gold tends to keep its value over time. If something cost a penny then and a dollar now, you can bet that gold's value has also increased 100-fold. This is not strictly true now (thanks to rampant speculation) but it's a good rough-and-ready estimate if you're in a hurry. With the sword example above, price your item in gold (per gram, ounce, or whatever), find out what gold was valued at in your era of choice, and that will approximately be the value of your item back then. If you don't want to deal with gold, livestock also works fairly well, although I don't know what a pig or cow is selling for right now. For example, a sword right now is selling at between about 0.3 and 1.0 troy ounces of gold, approximately ($250-$1000) (with better ones going for 2-3 troy ounces). What's that in 1800 Chinese money? Best, F

15th July 2010, 05:43 AM	#7
Vaarok Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 28	A cow's worth about a thousand dollars, and it's a pretty stable market value compared to inflation too. Pigs and chickens, however, are dirt cheap, and horses lost their market to the automobile. The gold or loaf-of-bread trick both work well for calculating values.