Another one I've had for 20+ years

rasdan · 28th January 2023, 07:36 AM

Hi Ian,

I am not sure. But every time I see a straight keris with broad pamor and coarse iron like that I intuitively think of Madura. Because a lot of Madurese keris with luks have similar pamor style and iron. Or maybe we can just call it East Java to be safe - because Madura is geographically in East Java.

A. G. Maisey · 28th January 2023, 11:25 AM

Nothing much to add to what has already been wriiten, just a few comments:-

1) I doubt that Pamekesan ever had a kraton, its status is as a Kabupaten, a regency, I'm not all that familiar with the history of Pamekasan, but I believe that it never had a Sultan, nor a Sunan, it was always under the ultimate control of Sumenep, which was a Sultanate. It might have had an Istana, ie, palace, where the Bupati (regent) lived, but if no Sultan or Sunan, it could not have had a Kraton.

2) dress is Central Jawa, Solo style

3) not tilam upih, but as YS has said, brojol

4) the "upe" spelling is perfectly understandable, a non-native speaker hearing the word could easily give it that spelling, as could a poorly educated native speaker --- I get emails frequently from several people in Solo who left school before they entered high school, and writing in both Javanese & BI their spellings sometimes do take a bit of effort to understand.

5) I'm of a like mind with Rasdan on blade origin, I would give this blade as Madura without a second though --- if I did have a second thought I might give it as East Jawa, thus including Madura, but throwing the net wider. Pamor ngulit semangko --- kulit semangka --- and a couple of other alternate spellings.

Edit

I think you might be right about Tuban Jaga, that gonjo looks very much like it could be nguceng mati.

David · 28th January 2023, 02:48 PM

I don't have much to add here either, except to say that i find it to be an attractive keris. Can you show us a photo from above showing the fit to the sheath. I am curious to know if this East Jawa blade Solo sheath was made specifically for this blade. Thanks!

Marcokeris · 28th January 2023, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't have much to add here either, except to say that i find it to be an attractive keris. Can you show us a photo from above showing the fit to the sheath. I am curious to know if this East Jawa blade Solo sheath was made specifically for this blade. Thanks!

widening a sheath to hold a blade is easy, tightening it without adding anything is a little more difficult

David · 29th January 2023, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

widening a sheath to hold a blade is easy, tightening it without adding anything is a little more difficult

True, but from what i can see this blade's width is fairly narrow the base. If it fits perfectly in the sheath the likelihood it was made for the blade would be high i believe.
Though i personally enjoy a wrongko that has been well adapted with inserted wood to fit a smaller blade profile. It generally shows that the owner valued that sheath for some reason. I have a couple of nice wrongko like that which were refitted because they are well made from desirable wood.

Ian · 30th January 2023, 07:21 AM

Thanks to all for your generous comments. Attached is a picture of the keris in its sheath, taken from above to show the fit. Best I can tell, it fits perfectly. There is no sign of any alteration, to accommodate it.

.

David · 30th January 2023, 04:52 PM

Thanks for the added photo Ian. Though it is indeed possible that this sheath once belong to a smaller blade and was sized up for this one i would say it is unlikely. The sheath is obviously newer than the blade and appears to have been made specifically for it. I don't think it is at all unusual to find a Madurese blade in Javanese dress or vice versa. It is a nice keris over all.

28th January 2023, 07:36 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 367	Hi Ian, I am not sure. But every time I see a straight keris with broad pamor and coarse iron like that I intuitively think of Madura. Because a lot of Madurese keris with luks have similar pamor style and iron. Or maybe we can just call it East Java to be safe - because Madura is geographically in East Java. Last edited by rasdan; 28th January 2023 at 12:31 PM. Reason: spelling

28th January 2023, 11:25 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,731	Nothing much to add to what has already been wriiten, just a few comments:- 1) I doubt that Pamekesan ever had a kraton, its status is as a Kabupaten, a regency, I'm not all that familiar with the history of Pamekasan, but I believe that it never had a Sultan, nor a Sunan, it was always under the ultimate control of Sumenep, which was a Sultanate. It might have had an Istana, ie, palace, where the Bupati (regent) lived, but if no Sultan or Sunan, it could not have had a Kraton. 2) dress is Central Jawa, Solo style 3) not tilam upih, but as YS has said, brojol 4) the "upe" spelling is perfectly understandable, a non-native speaker hearing the word could easily give it that spelling, as could a poorly educated native speaker --- I get emails frequently from several people in Solo who left school before they entered high school, and writing in both Javanese & BI their spellings sometimes do take a bit of effort to understand. 5) I'm of a like mind with Rasdan on blade origin, I would give this blade as Madura without a second though --- if I did have a second thought I might give it as East Jawa, thus including Madura, but throwing the net wider. Pamor ngulit semangko --- kulit semangka --- and a couple of other alternate spellings. Edit I think you might be right about Tuban Jaga, that gonjo looks very much like it could be nguceng mati. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 28th January 2023 at 07:05 PM. Reason: The Third Thought

30th January 2023, 07:21 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,041	Thanks to all for your generous comments. Attached is a picture of the keris in its sheath, taken from above to show the fit. Best I can tell, it fits perfectly. There is no sign of any alteration, to accommodate it. . Attached Images

28th January 2023, 02:48 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,042	I don't have much to add here either, except to say that i find it to be an attractive keris. Can you show us a photo from above showing the fit to the sheath. I am curious to know if this East Jawa blade Solo sheath was made specifically for this blade. Thanks!

30th January 2023, 04:52 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,042	Thanks for the added photo Ian. Though it is indeed possible that this sheath once belong to a smaller blade and was sized up for this one i would say it is unlikely. The sheath is obviously newer than the blade and appears to have been made specifically for it. I don't think it is at all unusual to find a Madurese blade in Javanese dress or vice versa. It is a nice keris over all.