Pawakan

rasdan · 20th January 2023, 04:00 PM

Thank you Alan for the correction. I can understand now what you mean by wondo can be difficult to comprehend.

So wondo is not physical observation. Rather it is the feeling, the "acquaintance". Therefore wondo can be different from person to person. So does this means that wondo cannot be learnt? Since the feeling generated is different to different individual?

A. G. Maisey · 20th January 2023, 09:56 PM

I think you might be part right Rasdan.

I do not think it is possible to teach somebody how to gauge a personality that is in balance with one's own personality, I think that is something we probably have from birth, or maybe learn as we grow up.

I was taught that wanda is about the personality of a keris and you can only feel it, but I really don't know what it is that makes some keris feel nice and comfortable and like a companion, and others you just want to get back into the wrongko ASAP and put away.

I have no clue at all why we have these different feelings. I guess it might be from an impression formed by the way a keris might look, and then that generates the feeling. Maybe. Or it might be from the feeling you sometimes get when you handle a particular keris.

Anyway, whatever it is, it is personality of the keris, and personality is a characteristic that we cannot see, only feel.

Maybe this "feeling" thing is universal with all living things, have you ever noticed how animals, for example, dogs can be attracted to one person but not another? Obviously the dogs can feel something that is in harmony with their own spirit, and this can vary, dog to dog, & person to person.

Incidentally.

If we look at the dictionary meaning of "wanda" it is the exact opposite of what I was taught and what I have written here.

"wanda" is actually literary language, Kawi, in Kawi it means the body of something (awak) or the form of something (dhapur).

some keris people use "wanda" to refer to the shape of a keris hilt

I do not know why this should be, but what I do know is that the way I have explained it is the way it was understood relative to keris, by the keris elites in Solo during the 1980's & 1990's.

In respect of "pawakan" it is a very commonly used word, it normally refers to a person, and the overall impression of his or her body:- fat, skinny, sexy, lopsided or whatever, however, although I have access to 5 or 6 Javanese dictionaries I can find it in only one of these dictionaries, a fairly recent one, if I ask a native speaker of Javanese in Solo if it is a Javanese or Indonesian word, the response I get is that it is both, but "pawakan" does not appear in Indonesian dictionaries nor Malay.

I sometimes feel that as with a lot of keris words and meanings, my own understandings are decidedly old time Solo, and not necessarily general.

rasdan · 20th January 2023, 11:50 PM

Understood. Thank you Alan. In that case judging personality can be subjective to a certain extent. I guess everything especially art works will have a personality; and keris can also be considered an artwork. Maybe we can get more insights into this from other fellow members.

A. G. Maisey · 21st January 2023, 01:02 AM

Maybe not just art works Rasdan.

I have tools that I think have a personality, like cabinet makers chisels that three generations before me have used.

Like a lawn mower that will not start unless I talk to it --- "start ya useless piecea sh*t or you're straight downa tha dump"

Yeah, I think lots of things have a personality, don't forget:- the thread runs through everything in creation.

rasdan · 21st January 2023, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Like a lawn mower that will not start unless I talk to it --- "start ya useless piecea sh*t or you're straight downa tha dump"

Haha.. I used to say that to my bike..

Thank you for the clarifications Alan.

Montino Bourbon · 2nd December 2023, 06:18 PM

You used the word “Thread”. I feel that this word, as you use it, is huge. Is there a place where I can get info on this ‘thread’?

You’ve seen the Keris with Petruk, and very fine ‘sungginan’ that I found in a pawn shop; I had dreams about it before I bought it. I totally relate to ‘soul’ in an object. Musical instruments can have a huge load of that. I’ve got a few, and when you pick them up you know in very few minutes whether you have A- an instrument, B- a VERY FINE instrument, and C- something that will have an incredible effect, a thing that can touch the hardest heart and heal the worst pain. I’m lucky to have a few of those, and the ones I’m fortunate enough to be a custodian of told me they were my friends within a few minutes of touching them. And their appearance? They are all beautifully made, perfect in shape, proportion, material, and execution. None of these have any special decoratio; they are fully functional. And yes, I talk to them: “Get in tune, you sob, or I’ll sell you to a collector who will put you on his wall!”

A. G. Maisey · 2nd December 2023, 07:46 PM

The thread I mentioned is the force of nature that binds all things in creation.

Some people will think of this thread as the Naga, others will think of the thread as God, perhaps neither of these concepts are adequate, they are just pegs to hang a thought on, something to help focus.

Perhaps our minds are too limited to grasp the idea of a natural force that flows through everything in creation, but if we pause for a moment, we empty our mind and think of perhaps a pumpkin, then focus on the stem of the pumpkin, on the stem we will see tiny hairs, focus on one of those hairs and continue that focus until there is nothing but the hair, this might open the door that will permit us to feel the one binding thread that holds the cosmos together.

I use pumpkins, others use something else, I believe a bowl of water is good.

That thread is perhaps beyond understanding, but for some of us, it is not beyond feeling.

2nd December 2023, 06:18 PM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 295	Thread You used the word “Thread”. I feel that this word, as you use it, is huge. Is there a place where I can get info on this ‘thread’? You’ve seen the Keris with Petruk, and very fine ‘sungginan’ that I found in a pawn shop; I had dreams about it before I bought it. I totally relate to ‘soul’ in an object. Musical instruments can have a huge load of that. I’ve got a few, and when you pick them up you know in very few minutes whether you have A- an instrument, B- a VERY FINE instrument, and C- something that will have an incredible effect, a thing that can touch the hardest heart and heal the worst pain. I’m lucky to have a few of those, and the ones I’m fortunate enough to be a custodian of told me they were my friends within a few minutes of touching them. And their appearance? They are all beautifully made, perfect in shape, proportion, material, and execution. None of these have any special decoratio; they are fully functional. And yes, I talk to them: “Get in tune, you sob, or I’ll sell you to a collector who will put you on his wall!”

20th January 2023, 04:00 PM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 367	Thank you Alan for the correction. I can understand now what you mean by wondo can be difficult to comprehend. So wondo is not physical observation. Rather it is the feeling, the "acquaintance". Therefore wondo can be different from person to person. So does this means that wondo cannot be learnt? Since the feeling generated is different to different individual?

20th January 2023, 09:56 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,731	I think you might be part right Rasdan. I do not think it is possible to teach somebody how to gauge a personality that is in balance with one's own personality, I think that is something we probably have from birth, or maybe learn as we grow up. I was taught that wanda is about the personality of a keris and you can only feel it, but I really don't know what it is that makes some keris feel nice and comfortable and like a companion, and others you just want to get back into the wrongko ASAP and put away. I have no clue at all why we have these different feelings. I guess it might be from an impression formed by the way a keris might look, and then that generates the feeling. Maybe. Or it might be from the feeling you sometimes get when you handle a particular keris. Anyway, whatever it is, it is personality of the keris, and personality is a characteristic that we cannot see, only feel. Maybe this "feeling" thing is universal with all living things, have you ever noticed how animals, for example, dogs can be attracted to one person but not another? Obviously the dogs can feel something that is in harmony with their own spirit, and this can vary, dog to dog, & person to person. Incidentally. If we look at the dictionary meaning of "wanda" it is the exact opposite of what I was taught and what I have written here. "wanda" is actually literary language, Kawi, in Kawi it means the body of something (awak) or the form of something (dhapur). some keris people use "wanda" to refer to the shape of a keris hilt I do not know why this should be, but what I do know is that the way I have explained it is the way it was understood relative to keris, by the keris elites in Solo during the 1980's & 1990's. In respect of "pawakan" it is a very commonly used word, it normally refers to a person, and the overall impression of his or her body:- fat, skinny, sexy, lopsided or whatever, however, although I have access to 5 or 6 Javanese dictionaries I can find it in only one of these dictionaries, a fairly recent one, if I ask a native speaker of Javanese in Solo if it is a Javanese or Indonesian word, the response I get is that it is both, but "pawakan" does not appear in Indonesian dictionaries nor Malay. I sometimes feel that as with a lot of keris words and meanings, my own understandings are decidedly old time Solo, and not necessarily general.

20th January 2023, 11:50 PM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 367	Understood. Thank you Alan. In that case judging personality can be subjective to a certain extent. I guess everything especially art works will have a personality; and keris can also be considered an artwork. Maybe we can get more insights into this from other fellow members.

21st January 2023, 01:02 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,731	Maybe not just art works Rasdan. I have tools that I think have a personality, like cabinet makers chisels that three generations before me have used. Like a lawn mower that will not start unless I talk to it --- "start ya useless piecea sh*t or you're straight downa tha dump" Yeah, I think lots of things have a personality, don't forget:- the thread runs through everything in creation.

2nd December 2023, 07:46 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,731	The thread I mentioned is the force of nature that binds all things in creation. Some people will think of this thread as the Naga, others will think of the thread as God, perhaps neither of these concepts are adequate, they are just pegs to hang a thought on, something to help focus. Perhaps our minds are too limited to grasp the idea of a natural force that flows through everything in creation, but if we pause for a moment, we empty our mind and think of perhaps a pumpkin, then focus on the stem of the pumpkin, on the stem we will see tiny hairs, focus on one of those hairs and continue that focus until there is nothing but the hair, this might open the door that will permit us to feel the one binding thread that holds the cosmos together. I use pumpkins, others use something else, I believe a bowl of water is good. That thread is perhaps beyond understanding, but for some of us, it is not beyond feeling.