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Old 2nd September 2019, 10:59 PM   #1
ipostswords
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Default Identifying horn species on a yatagan hilt

So I got this zeybek yatagan with its distinctive T shaped hilt, a nice twist core blade and some silver inlay, and what I thought was a wooden hilt in the photos turned out to be horn.

Is there any way to identify the species it came from?
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Old 3rd September 2019, 09:47 AM   #2
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Can we have a photo of the whole thing please.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 02:31 PM   #3
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This is the horn of cattle. Maybe a buffalo, maybe a cow. But definitely not a rhino horn
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Old 3rd September 2019, 03:49 PM   #4
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Agreed. It's bovine horn.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 06:14 PM   #5
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How wide is it at it's thickest part?
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Old 3rd September 2019, 07:24 PM   #6
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If i put a torch behind my ears, they will be red translucid for sure
but not rhino either...
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Old 3rd September 2019, 09:18 PM   #7
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There is a reason I asked for a pic' of the whole thing... More clues!
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Old 5th September 2019, 07:56 AM   #8
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More photos
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Old 6th September 2019, 04:20 PM   #9
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Why is it bovine and not Rhino...? Its translucent and has the grain of Rhino...Therefor l suggest Rhino.
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Old 6th September 2019, 05:22 PM   #10
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I have handled albino carabao horn before and it doesn't seem to be translucent like rhino, nor is it as fiberous as rhino.

If there is an example of albino carabao horn that is translucent like this, please post so that we can compare and learn.
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Old 6th September 2019, 09:38 PM   #11
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Default Horn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Why is it bovine and not Rhino...? Its translucent and has the grain of Rhino...Therefor l suggest Rhino.


Your thread on omani khanjars is what initially taught me about the light test and got me thinking it might be rhino, but many people think it is ram or bovine. I don't know what to think.
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Old 6th September 2019, 10:56 PM   #12
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Some mildly magnified images
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Old 7th September 2019, 02:35 PM   #13
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Sorry for my bad english. My 5 cents. I’ll try to explain about the rhino horn. I think everyone knows that a rhino horn has a structure that is different from that of a cow horn.
The rhino horn consists of special very hard hair that has grown together. The result is a structure in which the fibers are arranged - in parallel.
This can be seen in the photographs with red arrows.
If we look at the cross section of the horn, we will see a structure that is somewhat similar to the points - these are transverse sections of hairs.

On the subject that we are discussing, we see "curls" (indicated by green arrows), which do not happen on the rhino horn. And we do not see the "points" that occur on the cross section of the rhino horn.

In addition, the rhino horn is never stratified by “scales” (indicated by a yellow arrow). But such a stratification is found on old products from cow horn ...
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Old 7th September 2019, 03:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipostswords
Your thread on omani khanjars is what initially taught me about the light test and got me thinking it might be rhino, but many people think it is ram or bovine. I don't know what to think.



Not an easy one I agree ...and a rams horn ...is inscribed on the blade on your second picture...so... But the grip opposed to the ears is so hacked about it is almost impossible to tell ...but I will stick to the translucency test which indicates Rhino … probably very old but there it is.

Notwithstanding the horn ..this is a great weapon and a fine example.
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Old 7th September 2019, 05:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahratt
Sorry for my bad english. My 5 cents. I’ll try to explain about the rhino horn. ...


Amazing demonstration, thank you
I also wonder about the properties of rhino horn.
Yes it was luxuous and expensive and therefore nice to have rhino horn grips.
But i think rhino is more resistant than bovine horn and less breakable.
Any idea about this?
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Old 7th September 2019, 07:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Amazing demonstration, thank you
I also wonder about the properties of rhino horn.
Yes it was luxuous and expensive and therefore nice to have rhino horn grips.
But i think rhino is more resistant than bovine horn and less breakable.
Any idea about this?


Thank you, Kubur

Yes, you're absolutely right, rhino is more resistant than bovine horn and less breakable.
Although, of course, cracks may also appear on it. Especially if the handle pads are thin. From what I saw - usually on such handles cracks appear next to the rivet.
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Old 7th September 2019, 09:26 PM   #17
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Another Rhino horn property, it doesn't get slippery in a wet hand.
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:38 AM   #18
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I agree 100%! This is Rams horn. Made In Turkey. As far as I know they fry these horns before installation to protect them from worms getting to them, that’s why the color is usually odd in these and look like rhino. It’s fried

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Not an easy one I agree ...and a rams horn ...is inscribed on the blade on your second picture...so... But the grip opposed to the ears is so hacked about it is almost impossible to tell ...but I will stick to the translucency test which indicates Rhino … probably very old but there it is.

Notwithstanding the horn ..this is a great weapon and a fine example.
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:19 AM   #19
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Thanks for your help everyone. I think ram seems to be the correct determination, it hadn't clicked ot me that the inlay was a rams head on the blade, but now I can't avoid seeing it.

I think the best way to check for sure would be to remove the handle scale and see if it has the "spaghetti stand" end grain, but I don't want to damage anything.

Even without checking the end grain, I am satified to say it's rams horn
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:11 PM   #20
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Salaams sfenoid13, Well I never! That is amazing thank you indeed .. Regards Ibrahim al Balooshi.
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:46 PM   #21
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I think Sfenoid13 might be correct: goat or ram horn.

Also, this is not a classical Zeibek yataghan, the blade and the metal parts of the handle are of a typical classical generic Ottoman fashion. There is no integral bolster , no T-blade so typical of Zeibek. The meaty ricasso-located plates are of a fashion often seen on Balkan examples. All together, those parts are too sophisticated for being of Zeibek origin.
However, horn plates are genuine Zeibek: they are a later replacement and even have extra holes to prove it.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
I think Sfenoid13 might be correct: goat or ram horn.

Also, this is not a classical Zeibek yataghan, the blade and the metal parts of the handle are of a typical classical generic Ottoman fashion. There is no integral bolster , no T-blade so typical of Zeibek. The meaty ricasso-located plates are of a fashion often seen on Balkan examples. All together, those parts are too sophisticated for being of Zeibek origin.
However, horn plates are genuine Zeibek: they are a later replacement and even have extra holes to prove it.


The blade does have a "T" spine, so there's that
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Old 9th September 2019, 07:13 PM   #23
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Couldn't see it, sorry. Usually, Zeibek yataghans are very simple, with few decorations, curved ( usually not even recurved) blade, prominent T-spine and integral bolster.
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Old 10th September 2019, 04:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
I think Sfenoid13 might be correct: goat or ram horn.

Also, this is not a classical Zeibek yataghan, the blade and the metal parts of the handle are of a typical classical generic Ottoman fashion. There is no integral bolster , no T-blade so typical of Zeibek. The meaty ricasso-located plates are of a fashion often seen on Balkan examples. All together, those parts are too sophisticated for being of Zeibek origin.
However, horn plates are genuine Zeibek: they are a later replacement and even have extra holes to prove it.


I agree this is most likely not a Zeibek yatagan but an early Balkan example. The T handle seems like a later replacement , probably done in Turkey( where they fried the rams horn) ). Where did you get the Yataghan from ?
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Old 11th September 2019, 02:23 PM   #25
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These are not mine, just examples from the net.
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
These are not mine, just examples from the net.

My question was for “ipostswords” guy..
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