Gun barrel proof/armoury stamps.

Norman McCormick · 22nd September 2008, 11:51 PM

Hi Guys,
This gun barrel is from an Albanian/Greek Rasak rifle made in the first part of the 19th Cent, see post Rasak Restoration on the Ethnographic Forum.
I'm thinking that the barrel may be from an earlier piece decorated and recycled to make the Rasak. The stamps suggest to me a possible European, in its widest sense, origin for the barrel. Any ideas welcomed.
Regards,
Norman.

kahnjar1 · 23rd September 2008, 04:55 AM

Hi Norman,
According to the information I have here, the E surmounted by a star was the mark of the MUTZIG Castle manufactury in Strasbourg which operated from 1793 til 1870. The figure 10 COULD BE the bore size perhaps. The other marks I can not find--sorry but I hope this is of some help.
Regard Stuart

Jim McDougall · 23rd September 2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Norman,
According to the information I have here, the E surmounted by a star was the mark of the MUTZIG Castle manufactury in Strasbourg which operated from 1793 til 1870. The figure 10 COULD BE the bore size perhaps. The other marks I can not find--sorry but I hope this is of some help.
Regard Stuart

Thats excellent Stu! What reference are you using? I would really like to get threads going here with compilation of markings on guns, whether firearms or artillery, as well as picking up where we left off with swordsmiths markings on the thread on the other forum.

All best regards,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 23rd September 2008, 09:48 PM

Hi Stuart,
Many thanks for the info. I see there is an 'S' in a lozenge above the star so Strasbourg makes sense. I am particularly interested by this as I know that Napoleon recruited various local regiments in the Balkans the Albanian Pandours and the Albanian Regiment amongst others, see Osprey Publications no 410. It is also noted in this book that the troops used local arms and specifically mentions the Rasak as one of them. It is not too much of a leap of imagination to surmise that a weapon made in France, and probably issued to an regular/irregular, should be recycled into a local arm either later or contemporary with Napoleon's era. I'm sure this has been the same with captured and appropriated weaponry since time immemorial. It would be nice if a date of manufacture could be gleaned from the stamps. My rifle is inscribed 1825 so possibly used in the Greek War of Independence as well. Once again many thanks for the info it adds a lot for me regarding the historic interest of the rifle.
My Regards,
Norman.

kahnjar1 · 24th September 2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thats excellent Stu! What reference are you using? I would really like to get threads going here with compilation of markings on guns, whether firearms or artillery, as well as picking up where we left off with swordsmiths markings on the thread on the other forum.

All best regards,
Jim

Hi Jim,
Some years ago Gun Digest ran two seperate series of articles on gun proof in various countries. One series was written by Lee Kennett, and the other by A.Baron Engelhardt. I was lucky enough to have the foresight to photocopy these and they are my source.
Regards Stuart

Jim McDougall · 24th September 2008, 07:11 PM

Thank you so much Stuart! Sounds like they put together a pretty good compendium!
As I have mentioned, I honestly have always been involved in the study of swords and edged weapons, but have often been surprised that this publication has often presented valuable articles on edged weapons as well as firearms.
I think the point is that trying to focus study on a single area of arms and armour seems often to miss out on important closely related data and clues.

All best regards,
Jim

22nd September 2008, 11:51 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Gun barrel proof/armoury stamps. Hi Guys, This gun barrel is from an Albanian/Greek Rasak rifle made in the first part of the 19th Cent, see post Rasak Restoration on the Ethnographic Forum. I'm thinking that the barrel may be from an earlier piece decorated and recycled to make the Rasak. The stamps suggest to me a possible European, in its widest sense, origin for the barrel. Any ideas welcomed. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

23rd September 2008, 04:55 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,728	Strasbourg?? Hi Norman, According to the information I have here, the E surmounted by a star was the mark of the MUTZIG Castle manufactury in Strasbourg which operated from 1793 til 1870. The figure 10 COULD BE the bore size perhaps. The other marks I can not find--sorry but I hope this is of some help. Regard Stuart

23rd September 2008, 09:48 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi Stuart, Many thanks for the info. I see there is an 'S' in a lozenge above the star so Strasbourg makes sense. I am particularly interested by this as I know that Napoleon recruited various local regiments in the Balkans the Albanian Pandours and the Albanian Regiment amongst others, see Osprey Publications no 410. It is also noted in this book that the troops used local arms and specifically mentions the Rasak as one of them. It is not too much of a leap of imagination to surmise that a weapon made in France, and probably issued to an regular/irregular, should be recycled into a local arm either later or contemporary with Napoleon's era. I'm sure this has been the same with captured and appropriated weaponry since time immemorial. It would be nice if a date of manufacture could be gleaned from the stamps. My rifle is inscribed 1825 so possibly used in the Greek War of Independence as well. Once again many thanks for the info it adds a lot for me regarding the historic interest of the rifle. My Regards, Norman.

24th September 2008, 07:11 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Thank you so much Stuart! Sounds like they put together a pretty good compendium! As I have mentioned, I honestly have always been involved in the study of swords and edged weapons, but have often been surprised that this publication has often presented valuable articles on edged weapons as well as firearms. I think the point is that trying to focus study on a single area of arms and armour seems often to miss out on important closely related data and clues. All best regards, Jim