JAPANESE SLEEVE ENTANGLERS

VANDOO · 12th January 2008, 01:20 AM

I RAN ACROSS AN AUCTION OF TWO JAPANESE POLE ARMS THEY WERE CARRIED TO ENTANGLE THE LONG SLEEVES OF UNRULY SAMURAI. IT IS SAID THAT THE OFFICERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS WERE NOT OF SAMURAI CLASS SO WERE NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH OR KILL A SAMURAI. SO THIS METHOD WAS INVENTED TO CATCH A SAMURAI AND TAKE HIM BEFORE A OFFICIAL OF HIGH ENOUGH RANK TO DEAL WITH HIM. THAT IS ALL I KNOW ABOUT IT AND IT MAY NOT BE ENTIRELY CORRECT SO PERHAPS A MORE KNOWLEGABLE MEMBER CAN CORECT ME OR AD TO THE INFORMATION. I HAVE 3 MORE PICTURES OF THE ITEMS BUT UNFORTUNATELY THEY ARE TOO LARGE TO POST HERE AND i STILL HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO RESIZE ANYTHING.

Gavin Nugent · 12th January 2008, 02:18 AM

Asolutley gorgeous Vandoo, a rare find, did you win these? I do think they would look fabulous in my office!!!

Gav

Montino Bourbon · 12th January 2008, 08:00 AM

Made by this type of weapon would identify a person who escaped from their grip as a runaway criminal.

The Japanese version of "You can run, but you can't hide!"

t_c · 12th January 2008, 07:59 PM

According to Stone it's a Sode Garami (Sleeve tangler), used to catch thieves. Wish I could be more helpful. Nice pieces. If you want to PM me I'll resize the other images for you.
tc

fearn · 13th January 2008, 01:04 AM

There's a section on these weapons in Donn Draeger's book on classical bujutsu, which unfortunately I don't have with me at the moment. There were actually three weapons, the third being a catchpole similar to that used in Europe, and they were used by squads of three constables. After the shogunate was instituted, they became symbols of justice, and were displayed by magistrates at trials and punishments..

According to what I remember from Draeger, the reason that these poles were used was not because the constables couldn't touch the samurai, but rather because, during the Warring States Period (which is when these were used), the samurai were so dangerous that, to catch one alive (say, after a drunken brawl), a squad of three people with these implements was necessary. It's similar to medieval Europe, where the town constables used catchpoles of similar design for much the same reason.

Draeger wasn't fond of Tokugawa-era martial arts. He thought that they had deteriorated from the standard of the Warring States Period. One of his bits of evidence was that, during the Warring States period, the constables needed sleeve entanglers and worked in squads to catch samurai, whereas during the Tokugawa regime, they used staves, chains, and jitte (similar to sai) to catch samurai, and often worked alone. Something to think about.

My 0.02 cents,

F

Rick · 13th January 2008, 04:51 PM

Barry , I tried to resize those pics but they are not jpg files .

Maybe someone else can do better .

12th January 2008, 01:20 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	JAPANESE SLEEVE ENTANGLERS I RAN ACROSS AN AUCTION OF TWO JAPANESE POLE ARMS THEY WERE CARRIED TO ENTANGLE THE LONG SLEEVES OF UNRULY SAMURAI. IT IS SAID THAT THE OFFICERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS WERE NOT OF SAMURAI CLASS SO WERE NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH OR KILL A SAMURAI. SO THIS METHOD WAS INVENTED TO CATCH A SAMURAI AND TAKE HIM BEFORE A OFFICIAL OF HIGH ENOUGH RANK TO DEAL WITH HIM. THAT IS ALL I KNOW ABOUT IT AND IT MAY NOT BE ENTIRELY CORRECT SO PERHAPS A MORE KNOWLEGABLE MEMBER CAN CORECT ME OR AD TO THE INFORMATION. I HAVE 3 MORE PICTURES OF THE ITEMS BUT UNFORTUNATELY THEY ARE TOO LARGE TO POST HERE AND i STILL HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO RESIZE ANYTHING. Attached Images

12th January 2008, 02:18 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	gorgeous pieces Vandoo Asolutley gorgeous Vandoo, a rare find, did you win these? I do think they would look fabulous in my office!!! Gav

12th January 2008, 08:00 AM	#3
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 295	The parallel scratches... Made by this type of weapon would identify a person who escaped from their grip as a runaway criminal. The Japanese version of "You can run, but you can't hide!"

13th January 2008, 04:51 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,264	Sorry Barry , I tried to resize those pics but they are not jpg files . Maybe someone else can do better .

12th January 2008, 07:59 PM	#4
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	According to Stone it's a Sode Garami (Sleeve tangler), used to catch thieves. Wish I could be more helpful. Nice pieces. If you want to PM me I'll resize the other images for you. tc

13th January 2008, 01:04 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	There's a section on these weapons in Donn Draeger's book on classical bujutsu, which unfortunately I don't have with me at the moment. There were actually three weapons, the third being a catchpole similar to that used in Europe, and they were used by squads of three constables. After the shogunate was instituted, they became symbols of justice, and were displayed by magistrates at trials and punishments.. According to what I remember from Draeger, the reason that these poles were used was not because the constables couldn't touch the samurai, but rather because, during the Warring States Period (which is when these were used), the samurai were so dangerous that, to catch one alive (say, after a drunken brawl), a squad of three people with these implements was necessary. It's similar to medieval Europe, where the town constables used catchpoles of similar design for much the same reason. Draeger wasn't fond of Tokugawa-era martial arts. He thought that they had deteriorated from the standard of the Warring States Period. One of his bits of evidence was that, during the Warring States period, the constables needed sleeve entanglers and worked in squads to catch samurai, whereas during the Tokugawa regime, they used staves, chains, and jitte (similar to sai) to catch samurai, and often worked alone. Something to think about. My 0.02 cents, F