Sarajevo knife and fork.

gp · 13th August 2022, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp

and a 3rd set from Sarajevo Bosnia

Knife 32 cm
Fork 33 cm

never thought they would come bigger, but just stumbled on this set
knife 39 cm
Fork 35 cm

with 2 sets, at least I can invite Detlef for a BABI PANGANG now :-)))

gp · 26th March 2023, 11:15 AM

latest set I was happy to find :

knife & fork with a grip / handle I never have seen before
neither bichaqs or other knife / dagger types from Bosnia
yet it has all the characteristic ornaments:the combination of the below 3

- circular / rings with three copper wheel-like pieces in them
- metal, iron rivets on top
- bone grip

need to clean them ( green copper oxidation on the bone) when they arrive.

Any of you seen these grips before ?

BR

Gunar

Battara · 29th March 2023, 06:55 PM

What is the meaning of the green color in the bone pieces?

Dmitry · 30th March 2023, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the meaning of the green color in the bone pieces?

Just something different, possibly made to imitate the color of a mineral, like malachite.

gp · 30th March 2023, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the meaning of the green color in the bone pieces?

my guess is contamination by the copper rings due to bad storagein a humid place, but I can give a better reply once I have received them and cleaned / restored them.
I have seen it with some bichaqs of my collections before.
The green ones are complete green and do not show this kind of deterioration; they look like the above ones or the attached one
Folks handle swords with care, daggers also but the smaller items get often less care, specially these kind of cutlery.

Please bear with me....and I answer when I'll get them

Battara · 6th April 2023, 04:44 AM

Yes I'm not talking about a green hue like oxidized copper, but when the bone is dyed green.

Saracen · 9th April 2023, 01:33 AM

Yes, I'm interested in it too. What is the meaning of the green color of the hilts ?

gp · 9th April 2023, 04:56 PM

I just recceived them yesterday; as I thought..they were in poor condition, very dirty.
It took some time to get the dirt of it, next to the fact that due to poor storage and the copper ornaments being close together, the corrossion / oxidation went unfortunately also deep into the white bone grip.
Although I could clean some of it during a few days and using several methods, still some green contamination remained. I do not want to "clean" them any further as it might have a negative impact on the structure of the bone and cause other unwanted damage....I added some other forks to compare the looks from a color perspective

The green color of the knife above # 19 is just a layer added to the bone hilt, which is normal applied to the Bosnian small knives and bichaqs and sold to dignitaries or tourist after the occupation and later annexation by Austria in 1878. No green ones before that period during the Ottoman rule...

Root cause for this dark green in # 19 was simple another form of decoration but no other reason ; you can peel it of. A couple of damaged pieces on green ones I have show this clearly. nothing of the latter can be found in the literature of the last 200 years and nor have yataghans ever been made in that color ; only the bjelo (white) and crno (black) ones....

With literature I mean not only the Western literature but also the literature from the Balkan countries since 1878.

Remarkable with this set is the fact that although the total lenght is the same, the fork piece versus the blade is not. Something which doesn't occur in this way with the other sets from the handle / grip lenght ( knife gripis almost half the fork grip lenght)

Sajen · 11th April 2023, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp

with 2 sets, at least I can invite Detlef for a BABI PANGANG now :-)))

Ini enak sekali!

gp · 19th April 2023, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Ini enak sekali!

Selamat makan / enjoy the food mein Freund ! ☼

gp · 19th April 2023, 05:14 PM

my latest purchase, just received , is this set and is most beautiful and best intact of my collection with regards to the golden decoration and writting being almost untouched.

One question remains: what is written in Arabic writting?

As certainly "Sarajevo" it is not:

- the S is missing
- also the combination of other letters in caligraphic do not make sense
- no similarities with previous or other knives and bichaqs from my collection

or I might be missing something...any advise is more than welcome!

gp · 2nd July 2023, 07:52 PM

concerning the long forks as in

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...34&postcount=7

I just got a similar one but with one difference:

most of these long forks ( 31 cm long or more) either have only a decoration on the top of the metal piece where the fork goes into the grip or in gold Sarajevo written in Latin writting with flower decoration on the reverse side.

This new one has as well Sarajevo and the date 1888 written but next to Latin on one side also something on the reverse side in Arab writting of which I could decipher "Sarajevo" but no date in Arabic writting and something else written for which my knowledge of Arab writting is too little.
Obvious the language is most likely Bosnian in Turkish translated probably and in Arab writting...which doesn't make it any eassier...

Any one a guess ??? Much obliged if you could or would ...☺

26th March 2023, 11:15 AM	#2
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 668	latest set I was happy to find : knife & fork with a grip / handle I never have seen before neither bichaqs or other knife / dagger types from Bosnia yet it has all the characteristic ornaments:the combination of the below 3 - circular / rings with three copper wheel-like pieces in them - metal, iron rivets on top - bone grip need to clean them ( green copper oxidation on the bone) when they arrive. Any of you seen these grips before ? BR Gunar Attached Images

9th April 2023, 04:56 PM	#8
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 668	I just recceived them yesterday; as I thought..they were in poor condition, very dirty. It took some time to get the dirt of it, next to the fact that due to poor storage and the copper ornaments being close together, the corrossion / oxidation went unfortunately also deep into the white bone grip. Although I could clean some of it during a few days and using several methods, still some green contamination remained. I do not want to "clean" them any further as it might have a negative impact on the structure of the bone and cause other unwanted damage....I added some other forks to compare the looks from a color perspective The green color of the knife above # 19 is just a layer added to the bone hilt, which is normal applied to the Bosnian small knives and bichaqs and sold to dignitaries or tourist after the occupation and later annexation by Austria in 1878. No green ones before that period during the Ottoman rule... Root cause for this dark green in # 19 was simple another form of decoration but no other reason ; you can peel it of. A couple of damaged pieces on green ones I have show this clearly. nothing of the latter can be found in the literature of the last 200 years and nor have yataghans ever been made in that color ; only the bjelo (white) and crno (black) ones.... With literature I mean not only the Western literature but also the literature from the Balkan countries since 1878. Remarkable with this set is the fact that although the total lenght is the same, the fork piece versus the blade is not. Something which doesn't occur in this way with the other sets from the handle / grip lenght ( knife gripis almost half the fork grip lenght) Attached Images Last edited by gp; 10th April 2023 at 01:20 AM.

19th April 2023, 05:14 PM	#11
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 668	my latest purchase, just received , is this set and is most beautiful and best intact of my collection with regards to the golden decoration and writting being almost untouched. One question remains: what is written in Arabic writting? As certainly "Sarajevo" it is not: - the S is missing - also the combination of other letters in caligraphic do not make sense - no similarities with previous or other knives and bichaqs from my collection or I might be missing something...any advise is more than welcome! Attached Images Last edited by gp; 19th April 2023 at 08:26 PM.

2nd July 2023, 07:52 PM	#12
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 668	concerning the long forks as in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...34&postcount=7 I just got a similar one but with one difference: most of these long forks ( 31 cm long or more) either have only a decoration on the top of the metal piece where the fork goes into the grip or in gold Sarajevo written in Latin writting with flower decoration on the reverse side. This new one has as well Sarajevo and the date 1888 written but next to Latin on one side also something on the reverse side in Arab writting of which I could decipher "Sarajevo" but no date in Arabic writting and something else written for which my knowledge of Arab writting is too little. Obvious the language is most likely Bosnian in Turkish translated probably and in Arab writting...which doesn't make it any eassier... Any one a guess ??? Much obliged if you could or would ...☺ Attached Images

29th March 2023, 06:55 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,141	What is the meaning of the green color in the bone pieces?

6th April 2023, 04:44 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,141	Yes I'm not talking about a green hue like oxidized copper, but when the bone is dyed green.

9th April 2023, 01:33 AM	#7
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Yes, I'm interested in it too. What is the meaning of the green color of the hilts ?