Please help on African piece

fernando · 2nd November 2007, 07:21 PM

The only thing i know for sure is the blade length, which measures 13" (33 cms.).
I did it some cleaning with penetrating oil and that rough green part of the dish washing spounge.
I diden't touch the scabbard and the hilt, also i am convinced that some varnishy stuff was added to both. Whereas in the scabbard it looks quite neutral, maybe even a propper finish, on the hilt it looks as even it has a paint colour ... i don't know. It is highly sensitive to scratching
The "baloon" twisted wiring is copper and so is the double dented "washer" between the grip and the pommel, which is in iron. The skin on the grip would look the same as in the scabbard, if it weren't covered by that finishing stuff.
I would love to receive coments on origin and possible date, as well as the skin used and possible stitching material ... and or whatever you Gentlemen would care to say about this piece, like: Should i wash or dilute off that stuff from the hilt, skin and or metalic parts ?
Thanks a lot
Fernando.

Lew · 2nd November 2007, 08:09 PM

Yaka tribe sword and a very nice one at that.

Lew

fernando · 2nd November 2007, 08:26 PM

Thank you very much indeed Lew, for giving me the vital answer.
Any more coments, Gentlemen?
Like answers to my other questions ?
I would be so much obliged

Freddy · 3rd November 2007, 01:20 PM

Hi, Fernando.

Indeed a very nice Yaka sword.

The discolouration of the leather handle is, in my opinion, due to the handling of the sword. It comes from the 'sweat' or 'grease' on the hands of the former Congolese owner. I would touch the leather parts. These things make the piece original.

It's very difficult to put a date on African weapons, but I would think this one is pre 1960's.

Here are the handles of my two pieces :

fernando · 3rd November 2007, 03:15 PM

Thanks a lot Freddy
I will surely follow your advice and will not touch it.
I can't see the blade tips on your excelent examples, but meanwhile i had a look to these swords in the Net, after knowing their name and origin, and i am convinced that the blade tip of my example was shortened for some reason. This judging by the general length of the various ones i observed and specially because the double line dot design on the ridge stops abruptly at the blade tip, and not with the due harmony. Also comparing to its scabbard length, this blade could be at least some 5 cms longer. Wouldn't you agree ??
I thank you for the estimate on the age which, i confess, was a bucket of cold water over me. I keep thinking these pieces are much older then what they really are, influenced by the judging of European stuff.
To my preference, i would never acquire pieces newer than 19th century ... exceptions considered. At least the price of this one was quite convenient, looking to the prices i see in the Net ... but still i am unsatisfied

Thanks again for your help
Dank je wel
Fernando

Freddy · 3rd November 2007, 04:44 PM

The blades on Yaka-swords can differ. I already saw many blades with similar shapes like the one you have. Mine are just a bit different (that's why I bought them

)

I think I already showed them, but here they are again.

The one on the left is atypical as it has the hilt of a Yaka-sword, but the blade of a Songye-sword. So is it Yaka or Songye, it's up to you. Blades travelled throughout Africa as currency, so anything can happen.

The 'normal' Yaka-sword (on the right) is quite a large piece. It measures about 70 cm ! It's heavy and well forged. Besides the dotted lines, there's also a zigzag design.

Unfortunately, I don't have scabbard for these pieces.

fernando · 3rd November 2007, 08:00 PM

Thank you Freddy, your two blades are indeed cool

.
But precisely as i mentioned, also in your examples the incized lines terminate together before the blade ends.
Thyst's why i thaught my blade was shortened, not because of the blade shape alone.
In the attached picture i try to transmit the idea, both in the incized pattern ending and in the space left in the scabbard, comparing to other example.
However i fully accept your observation that my blade was originaly like it is now.
In the next picture i am showing some pieces that i left behind, when i bought the Yaka sword. The guy would sell them cheap, but i found no interest at the m oment. Due to some browsing i have ben doing, i am now convinced that they are also Yaka. I call your attention for the one with the convex blade and the black shaft. Unlike the other two, this is not an arrow but a Yaka "scraping tool". I found that it is used to scrap some weed, but i don't know what is envolved in such operation.
Have you ever seen one of this, or know its actual scraping intention ?
Obviously you don't have to care about all this story at all

.
All the best
Fernando

2nd November 2007, 07:21 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Please help on African piece The only thing i know for sure is the blade length, which measures 13" (33 cms.). I did it some cleaning with penetrating oil and that rough green part of the dish washing spounge. I diden't touch the scabbard and the hilt, also i am convinced that some varnishy stuff was added to both. Whereas in the scabbard it looks quite neutral, maybe even a propper finish, on the hilt it looks as even it has a paint colour ... i don't know. It is highly sensitive to scratching The "baloon" twisted wiring is copper and so is the double dented "washer" between the grip and the pommel, which is in iron. The skin on the grip would look the same as in the scabbard, if it weren't covered by that finishing stuff. I would love to receive coments on origin and possible date, as well as the skin used and possible stitching material ... and or whatever you Gentlemen would care to say about this piece, like: Should i wash or dilute off that stuff from the hilt, skin and or metalic parts ? Thanks a lot Fernando. Attached Images

3rd November 2007, 08:00 PM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Thank you Freddy, your two blades are indeed cool . But precisely as i mentioned, also in your examples the incized lines terminate together before the blade ends. Thyst's why i thaught my blade was shortened, not because of the blade shape alone. In the attached picture i try to transmit the idea, both in the incized pattern ending and in the space left in the scabbard, comparing to other example. However i fully accept your observation that my blade was originaly like it is now. In the next picture i am showing some pieces that i left behind, when i bought the Yaka sword. The guy would sell them cheap, but i found no interest at the m oment. Due to some browsing i have ben doing, i am now convinced that they are also Yaka. I call your attention for the one with the convex blade and the black shaft. Unlike the other two, this is not an arrow but a Yaka "scraping tool". I found that it is used to scrap some weed, but i don't know what is envolved in such operation. Have you ever seen one of this, or know its actual scraping intention ? Obviously you don't have to care about all this story at all . All the best Fernando Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 3rd November 2007 at 08:17 PM.

2nd November 2007, 08:09 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Yaka tribe sword and a very nice one at that. Lew

2nd November 2007, 08:26 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Thank you very much indeed Lew, for giving me the vital answer. Any more coments, Gentlemen? Like answers to my other questions ? I would be so much obliged

3rd November 2007, 01:20 PM	#4
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Hi, Fernando. Indeed a very nice Yaka sword. The discolouration of the leather handle is, in my opinion, due to the handling of the sword. It comes from the 'sweat' or 'grease' on the hands of the former Congolese owner. I would touch the leather parts. These things make the piece original. It's very difficult to put a date on African weapons, but I would think this one is pre 1960's. Here are the handles of my two pieces :

3rd November 2007, 03:15 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Thanks a lot Freddy I will surely follow your advice and will not touch it. I can't see the blade tips on your excelent examples, but meanwhile i had a look to these swords in the Net, after knowing their name and origin, and i am convinced that the blade tip of my example was shortened for some reason. This judging by the general length of the various ones i observed and specially because the double line dot design on the ridge stops abruptly at the blade tip, and not with the due harmony. Also comparing to its scabbard length, this blade could be at least some 5 cms longer. Wouldn't you agree ?? I thank you for the estimate on the age which, i confess, was a bucket of cold water over me. I keep thinking these pieces are much older then what they really are, influenced by the judging of European stuff. To my preference, i would never acquire pieces newer than 19th century ... exceptions considered. At least the price of this one was quite convenient, looking to the prices i see in the Net ... but still i am unsatisfied Thanks again for your help Dank je wel Fernando

3rd November 2007, 04:44 PM	#6
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	The blades on Yaka-swords can differ. I already saw many blades with similar shapes like the one you have. Mine are just a bit different (that's why I bought them ) I think I already showed them, but here they are again. The one on the left is atypical as it has the hilt of a Yaka-sword, but the blade of a Songye-sword. So is it Yaka or Songye, it's up to you. Blades travelled throughout Africa as currency, so anything can happen. The 'normal' Yaka-sword (on the right) is quite a large piece. It measures about 70 cm ! It's heavy and well forged. Besides the dotted lines, there's also a zigzag design. Unfortunately, I don't have scabbard for these pieces.