Moro Kris

kino · 28th June 2006, 04:07 AM

This Kris has been residing in my collection for a few years now. I cleaned it and etched it with PCB etchant. For some reason the ganya and the elephant's mouth cavity won't take to the etchant. What do you forumites think, stainless steel, highly unlikely. BTW the lower portion of the elephant's mouth is copper. I saw another Kris with the same type of ganya, I believe it was Ibeam's. Overall length 28", blade 23.5". The last photo is of the blade before the final polish.

How about the hilt, any particular name? Maybe an Indo name?

As always all comments are welcomed and much appreciated.

Andrew · 28th June 2006, 04:32 AM

That's interesting! Is it possible the ganga is silver or silver plate, Kino?

nechesh · 28th June 2006, 05:18 AM

Now that's interesting.....and beautiful!

I wonder if it could also be nickel. I know it isn't affected by arsenic and lime on Indo keris. Perhaps it would resist PCB etchant as well. But Andrew has a point and it does look a bit like silver. Was the gangya tarnished before you etched?
The blade certainly looks Moro, but i have never seen this type of hilt before. At first look it (the hilt) appears distictly un-Moro. Do you think this is a re-hilted blade?

kino · 28th June 2006, 06:01 AM

Maybe I should have it assayed to see what the silver or nickle content is.
In Cato's book, pg. 61, a Kris with a similar type of hilt. I don't think it's a re-hilt.
Here is what it looked like when I first got it.

Ferguson · 28th June 2006, 11:23 AM

Wow. Outstanding piece.

Steve

Rick · 28th June 2006, 01:52 PM

If that gangya has silver in it or is silver it would turn black with an etch .
Suspect that it is high nickel content alloy .
The hilt reminds me of Borneo work without the inten .
Also , is it just me or is that a pretty skinny tang on this sword .

Could we possibly be looking at a genuine Borneo kris ?

Ian · 28th June 2006, 08:03 PM

Here's how I think this was done. With the blade disassembled, the separate gangya and the top inch or so of the blade were electroplated -- possibly chromed. Then the plated portion of the main blade was lightly ground/polished back leaving only the elephant trunk area still plated. The main part of the blade was etched and the sword reassembled to create its present state.

The hilt is similar to those on some of the highly decorated smaller kris being produced in Lanao. In which case this one could be Maranao in origin.

Ian.

Battara · 29th June 2006, 01:33 AM

I think that the hilt is a later style. I also agree with Rick - if the ganga were silver it would have turned black or very dark brown. Only chrome or possibly nickle would not react to the etchant.

mmontoro · 29th June 2006, 01:56 AM

Nice lines to the blade. The pommel end of the hilt reminds me somewhat of the bowed head on Jawa demam keris hilts.

Spunjer · 29th June 2006, 12:49 PM

wow, nice blade, kino! that shows one hell of a contrast.

Dajak · 29th June 2006, 01:11 PM

Hi what a nice piece some thimes you see this type off hilt on krissen from Borneo bandjarmasssin hilts with stones

ibeam · 29th June 2006, 09:19 PM

As per Kino's request.

Pics of the brass gangya.

kino · 1st July 2006, 12:29 AM

I just came back from the Jeweler, he tested it and confirmed that it is Nickle with some silver content (German Silver).

Ibeam, thanks for posting a photo of your Kris.

Thank you all for your thoughts and kind comments.

Have a safe 4th all. Come back with all your fingers and toes.

Battara · 1st July 2006, 07:58 PM

Kino,

FYI - Nickel is German silver with a little copper in it.

nechesh · 1st July 2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Kino,

FYI - Nickel is German silver with a little copper in it.

I sorry Jose, but isn't nickel an element onto itself?

Justin · 2nd July 2006, 04:04 PM

I am pretty sure that 'German silver' ,'Nickle silver',and white brass are all the same thing,and none have any silver in them,heres the breakdown I have:

60% Copper
20% Nickle
20% Zinc

punal · 2nd July 2006, 05:01 PM

kino, kumusta?
i really like your sword, nice lamination. what is hilt made of?

Battara · 2nd July 2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

I sorry Jose, but isn't nickel an element onto itself?

Good catch

, what I meant was that German silver is nickel with a little copper. Yes, nickel is an element.

nechesh · 2nd July 2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Good catch

, what I meant was that German silver is nickel with a little copper. Yes, nickel is an element.

I figured it was just an oversight.

And i also think Justin is correct when he states that there isn't really any silver in what is referred to as German Silver.

kino · 3rd July 2006, 12:11 AM

Punal, I believe the hilt made from coin silver. Nice to hear from you.

Battara · 4th July 2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

I just came back from the Jeweler, he tested it and confirmed that it is Nickle with some silver content (German Silver).

I just re-read this. Nechesh and Justin are right, there isn't any silver in "German silver" which is nickel/copper. If there is indeed the presence of silver and the presence of copper (somthing of which I assume in the testing) then KIno has a point - it could very well be a low grade silver alloy, say 65-75% silver and the rest copper. Coin silver is 80% silver and would not turn up much of the copper in silver testing as it would in white brass. This makes some sense in parts where I see brown patina.

Gavin Nugent · 12th September 2023, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi what a nice piece some thimes you see this type off hilt on krissen from Borneo bandjarmasssin hilts with stones

Although Ben is no longer with us on the forum journey, I believe this is what he was referring to.

kronckew · 14th September 2023, 07:24 PM

Silver turns black quickly in sulphur compounds . Egg yolk contains sulphur. A drop of egg yolk on the ganga will turn it black VERY quickly, depending on the silver content. Mine did.

28th June 2006, 04:07 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 973	Moro Kris This Kris has been residing in my collection for a few years now. I cleaned it and etched it with PCB etchant. For some reason the ganya and the elephant's mouth cavity won't take to the etchant. What do you forumites think, stainless steel, highly unlikely. BTW the lower portion of the elephant's mouth is copper. I saw another Kris with the same type of ganya, I believe it was Ibeam's. Overall length 28", blade 23.5". The last photo is of the blade before the final polish. How about the hilt, any particular name? Maybe an Indo name? As always all comments are welcomed and much appreciated. Attached Images

28th June 2006, 06:01 AM	#4
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 973	Maybe I should have it assayed to see what the silver or nickle content is. In Cato's book, pg. 61, a Kris with a similar type of hilt. I don't think it's a re-hilt. Here is what it looked like when I first got it. Attached Images

28th June 2006, 01:52 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	If that gangya has silver in it or is silver it would turn black with an etch . Suspect that it is high nickel content alloy . The hilt reminds me of Borneo work without the inten . Also , is it just me or is that a pretty skinny tang on this sword . Could we possibly be looking at a genuine Borneo kris ? Last edited by Rick; 28th June 2006 at 03:43 PM. Reason: More thoughts

29th June 2006, 09:19 PM	#12
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	Nice Kris As per Kino's request. Pics of the brass gangya. Attached Images

14th September 2023, 07:24 PM	#23
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	Silver turns black quickly in sulphur compounds . Egg yolk contains sulphur. A drop of egg yolk on the ganga will turn it black VERY quickly, depending on the silver content. Mine did. Attached Images

28th June 2006, 04:32 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	That's interesting! Is it possible the ganga is silver or silver plate, Kino?

28th June 2006, 05:18 AM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Now that's interesting.....and beautiful! I wonder if it could also be nickel. I know it isn't affected by arsenic and lime on Indo keris. Perhaps it would resist PCB etchant as well. But Andrew has a point and it does look a bit like silver. Was the gangya tarnished before you etched? The blade certainly looks Moro, but i have never seen this type of hilt before. At first look it (the hilt) appears distictly un-Moro. Do you think this is a re-hilted blade?

28th June 2006, 11:23 AM	#5
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Wow. Outstanding piece. Steve

28th June 2006, 08:03 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,028	Here's how I think this was done. With the blade disassembled, the separate gangya and the top inch or so of the blade were electroplated -- possibly chromed. Then the plated portion of the main blade was lightly ground/polished back leaving only the elephant trunk area still plated. The main part of the blade was etched and the sword reassembled to create its present state. The hilt is similar to those on some of the highly decorated smaller kris being produced in Lanao. In which case this one could be Maranao in origin. Ian.

29th June 2006, 01:33 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I think that the hilt is a later style. I also agree with Rick - if the ganga were silver it would have turned black or very dark brown. Only chrome or possibly nickle would not react to the etchant.

29th June 2006, 01:56 AM	#9
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Nice lines to the blade. The pommel end of the hilt reminds me somewhat of the bowed head on Jawa demam keris hilts.

29th June 2006, 12:49 PM	#10
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	wow, nice blade, kino! that shows one hell of a contrast.

29th June 2006, 01:11 PM	#11
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi what a nice piece some thimes you see this type off hilt on krissen from Borneo bandjarmasssin hilts with stones

1st July 2006, 12:29 AM	#13
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 973	I just came back from the Jeweler, he tested it and confirmed that it is Nickle with some silver content (German Silver). Ibeam, thanks for posting a photo of your Kris. Thank you all for your thoughts and kind comments. Have a safe 4th all. Come back with all your fingers and toes.

1st July 2006, 07:58 PM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Kino, FYI - Nickel is German silver with a little copper in it.

2nd July 2006, 04:04 PM	#16
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	I am pretty sure that 'German silver' ,'Nickle silver',and white brass are all the same thing,and none have any silver in them,heres the breakdown I have: 60% Copper 20% Nickle 20% Zinc

2nd July 2006, 05:01 PM	#17
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	kino, kumusta? i really like your sword, nice lamination. what is hilt made of?

3rd July 2006, 12:11 AM	#20
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 973	Punal, I believe the hilt made from coin silver. Nice to hear from you.