Question: what type of mandau is this?

Godfried · 14th November 2021, 11:59 PM

Does anyone know what kind of mandau this is?
Could it be a "Tilang Kamarau"? the back of this sword is the same as the front. The sword comes from Brunei. The motifs on the sword, handle and sheath seem floral to me.

David · 15th November 2021, 04:02 PM

I think some folks might call this a Tilang Kamarau, but it is a little outside my collecting area to be too sure of myself. But i will say that AFAIK a Tilang Kamarau is not a type of Mandau. A mandau, or Parang Ilang, is a specific form, even if it does share the same basic hilt form as this sword does.

kai · 15th November 2021, 04:43 PM

Yes, I'm with you on this one, Godfried:

If both sides of the blade are (convex) rather than )concave+convex) and it's stylistically Iban rather than a few ethnic groups limited to Sabah and northern Kalimantan Timur, this label seems suitable...

Is it known from where in Brunei this piece hailed?

Very detailed work on this blade! Backside of the blade as well as scabbard?

Regards,
Kai

Godfried · 15th November 2021, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Yes, I'm with you on this one, Godfried:

If both sides of the blade are (convex) rather than )concave+convex) and it's stylistically Iban rather than a few ethnic groups limited to Sabah and northern Kalimantan Timur, this label seems suitable...

Is it known from where in Brunei this piece hailed?

Very detailed work on this blade! Backside of the blade as well as scabbard?

Regards,
Kai

Thanks Kai.
Unfortunately it is not known where exactly it comes from Brunei.

Godfried · 15th November 2021, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think some folks might call this a Tilang Kamarau, but it is a little outside my collecting area to be too sure of myself. But i will say that AFAIK a Tilang Kamarau is not a type of Mandau. A mandau, or Parang Ilang, is a specific form, even if it does share the same basic hilt form as this sword does.

Hello David
You are absolutely right, but the word Mandau is often used as an umbrella name for various dayak swords. That is why used in my question the word Mandau.

David · 16th November 2021, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfried

Hello David
You are absolutely right, but the word Mandau is often used as an umbrella name for various dayak swords. That is why used in my question the word Mandau.

Again, this i not my concentration of collection. I own just one mandau and have had only one other in the past, but it seems rather inaccurate to use mandau as a an umbrella term for various Dayak swords when these other swords all have their own characteristics and specific names. That is why i questioned your use of the word mandau.

kai · 16th November 2021, 08:07 PM

I agree that specific terms would be preferable, if available/established.

However, the uninitiated will often grab a (relatively) well-known moniker, like other Indo daggers being also called k(e)ris when mentioned among the general populace.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 16th November 2021, 11:17 PM

Sounds to me like we're playing the Name Game here.

In fact Kai, on the ground, real time, real place, Solo, Jogja , Malang and Bali too, all the places I get around in non-covid times quite a bit, amongst the general populace there is no use of all the names and terms that the collector community seems to know in Jakarta, Surabaya, and most of the world outside these places of origin.

Even amongst the keris literate people of Central Jawa terminology is very much more relaxed than what I see in this Forum.

I remember very clearly what Empu Pauzan Pusposkadgo said when we were discussing the new publication of Ensiklopedi:-

"where did he get all these names & words from? I never heard of a lot of the nonsense that is in this book"

14th November 2021, 11:59 PM	#1
Godfried Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Den Haag Holland Posts: 24	Question: what type of mandau is this? Does anyone know what kind of mandau this is? Could it be a "Tilang Kamarau"? the back of this sword is the same as the front. The sword comes from Brunei. The motifs on the sword, handle and sheath seem floral to me. Attached Images

15th November 2021, 04:02 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,030	I think some folks might call this a Tilang Kamarau, but it is a little outside my collecting area to be too sure of myself. But i will say that AFAIK a Tilang Kamarau is not a type of Mandau. A mandau, or Parang Ilang, is a specific form, even if it does share the same basic hilt form as this sword does.

15th November 2021, 04:43 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,219	Yes, I'm with you on this one, Godfried: If both sides of the blade are (convex) rather than )concave+convex) and it's stylistically Iban rather than a few ethnic groups limited to Sabah and northern Kalimantan Timur, this label seems suitable... Is it known from where in Brunei this piece hailed? Very detailed work on this blade! Backside of the blade as well as scabbard? Regards, Kai

16th November 2021, 08:07 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,219	I agree that specific terms would be preferable, if available/established. However, the uninitiated will often grab a (relatively) well-known moniker, like other Indo daggers being also called k(e)ris when mentioned among the general populace. Regards, Kai

16th November 2021, 11:17 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,705	Sounds to me like we're playing the Name Game here. In fact Kai, on the ground, real time, real place, Solo, Jogja , Malang and Bali too, all the places I get around in non-covid times quite a bit, amongst the general populace there is no use of all the names and terms that the collector community seems to know in Jakarta, Surabaya, and most of the world outside these places of origin. Even amongst the keris literate people of Central Jawa terminology is very much more relaxed than what I see in this Forum. I remember very clearly what Empu Pauzan Pusposkadgo said when we were discussing the new publication of Ensiklopedi:- "where did he get all these names & words from? I never heard of a lot of the nonsense that is in this book"