Moro Kris Maybe? need information please

[MrLyon101]

I inherited the kirs from my grandfather's father who fought in the phill. war. it had some rust issues. i used a double ot steel wool to remove alot of the rust. i hear vinegar can help as well. i would like some ideas on how to get the rest off if anyone can help. and if anyone can help me with identifying this sword and spear and what people think of them would help. thanks for the feedback!!

[Battara]

Yes this is a Moro kris. Probably Sulu in origin. What is very nice is that the blade is has a twist core steel center section. Very desirable.

The other piece in the picture is a budiak, a type of Moro spear. Would you show close ups of the blade on that too?

[Spunjer]

Beautiful kris and budiak, mr lyons! If you do apply vinegar, make sure you neutralize it after with baking soda.

[ThePepperSkull]

I echo the sentiments of the previous two members: Wonderful Moro pieces you have there.

I have owned/handled older, more dimnutive Sulu twistcore pieces and newer monosteel Sulu pieces. However, in person, I have yet to encounter a Sulu twistcore from this era of manufacture from in between. Very nice piece! I am green with envy, sir!

[kai]

Welcome and congrats! These kris are addictive though...

I also believe this is a Sulu kris (kalis seko) from around the turn of the (19th) century. Really a neat twistcore blade and also the round pommel (bunti wood) is a rare feature! Only the remaining grip wrap may not be original - maybe a makeshift repair. I'd consider to have it wrapped in traditional braided and "lacquered" style. The blade certainly deserves a careful etch: a little diluted vinegar (keep repeatedly working with a plastic brush) will take care of any remining rust and a following etch with hot vinegar may be enough to enhance the pattern; the result will be traditional - maybe kinda subdued though. You may also want to try a ferric chloride etch (neutralizing much more important with this approach) or other approaches to get a more bold pattern (I'd recommend vinegar first which is much safer). Please try the search function with kris and, as the second keyword, vingar or ferric, respectively; that should get you to several threads with detailed info. Please ask if you need any additional info!

Just need to be the first on record with this plea: If you ever decide to part with this kris, please be so kind and let me know!


As mentioned, it's well possible that the budiak also has twistcore - if it doesn't show any visible pattern already, some hot water may bring out the laminations enough to verify their pattern. With a few close-ups we can work from there...

Regards,
Kai

[MrLyon101]

First and for most i want to thank everyone for the information you have all provided. it has helped me learn more about the moro culture. i ask. i have noticed that there are more kriss that have a longer straight tip ( mine is more wavey) is that a common practice for a straight tip? From what i see it looks to be all one siece of steel. the blade and shaft come apart. there is alot of rust i havnt gotten to yet but the vinegar tips have helped with the kris.

[ThePepperSkull]

I agree with kai on all ends, except for one important detail.

...If you decide to let go of this piece, you should let ME know first (Eh, it was worth a shot)

Seriously thought, both are very gorgeous pieces. Any information about them reagrding dimensions? How long is the blade on that twistcore?

[David]

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

...If you decide to let go of this piece, you should let ME know first (Eh, it was worth a shot)

Gentlemen, please....a little decorum...we all know that this is not the proper forum for advancing offers to buy or sell...and please don't tell me there is no truth in your jest...

[MrLyon101]

Thank you guys. if you guys want it it must be a good piece lol. but for right now i do not plan on swapping or trading or saleing. my grandfather passed away and right before he did he gave me these two pieces of his fathers. my great grandfather's diary from the war is in the kansas history museum. im trying to get a copy so i can look through it to see if he mentioned where and when he aquired the pieces. i think this will help alot is possibly identifying more. but i will say if i ever do choose i will put it in the swap forum and i will give everyone a fair chance. again i do want to say thanks for everyones help!!!!!!!!!!!
I took some pics with a tape measure. as requested but not the best pics.sorry

[kai]

i have noticed that there are more kriss that have a longer straight tip ( mine is more wavey) is that a common practice for a straight tip?

There are like 4 major kris blade types:
1. a rare sabre-like blade with a single edge
2. straight (kalis tulid in Tausug)
3. half-waved (kalis taluseko)
4. fully waved (kalis seko)

Regarding the budiak: even a smooth blade like this may show some nice laminations upon etching (and even a twistcore surprise is not unpossible yet). Please keep us updated and post a close-up once you soaked the blade in diluted vinegar for removing the remaining rust.

BTW, it should be fairly easy to remove the hilt (and both silver asang-asang) from the blade of the kris once you carefully remove the grip binding which is loose, anyway. This will make working on the blade much easier!

Regards,
Kai

[ThePepperSkull]

Honetly they are nice pieces and you should keep them. Worthy of our envy but worthier I think to keep within the context of family heirloom. Hopefully you can find out via the diary how he came into posession of these wonderful pieces.


Kai: How does one go about safely removing the asang-asang? On most pieces I have with asang-asang like this, they are locked onto the blade tightly. Is it a simple matter of removing the thin copper/brass sheets on the bottom of them that extend onto the hilt? I'm only guessing when I say I think this is how this style of asang-asang was tightened onto the blade, but having no experience in removing them I do not know for sure

Originally Posted by David

Gentlemen, please....a little decorum...we all know that this is not the proper forum for advancing offers to buy or sell...and please don't tell me there is no truth in your jest...

I'm a firm believer of the Carlin and Pryor school of humor regarding truth in comedy.

I am NOT a firm believer, however, in breaking forum rules. My apologies, David. Will not happen again

[David]

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

I'm a firm believer of the Carlin and Pryor school of humor regarding truth in comedy.

I am NOT a firm believer, however, in breaking forum rules. My apologies, David. Will not happen again

No worries Pepper...just trying to keep you rascals in line...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by MrLyon101

Thank you guys. if you guys want it it must be a good piece lol.

Hello Mr. Lyon,

it is a good piece indeed. First it is a Sulu kris, second it is a twistcore blade and the pommel is special. Would like to see this kris full restored.

Regards,

Detlef

[MrLyon101]

If i can ask what makes the wooden pommel unique? I see more elaborit designs and mine is just a wood ball. and sorry for my questions. these are my first pieces and lack the knowledge. im a newbie lol.

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by MrLyon101

I inherited the kirs from my grandfather's father who fought in the phill. war.!

You have any more info on your great-grandfathers exploits in the Philippines? What branch, which units, or where he was stationed? Typically a lot of battles and skirmishes were documented.

[MrLyon101]

His journal is in the kansas history museum. its hard trying to track it down but doing research now on this. hope to hear back soon from the museum

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by MrLyon101

If i can ask what makes the wooden pommel unique?

Hello,

not unique but rare. Search here a little bit and you will see that a "ball" pommel is a rare find.

Regards,

Detlef