Epee for ID help please

christek · 23rd December 2012, 03:15 AM

Greetings all!

Here I have a beautiful (English?) small-sword or epee. I know very little regarding the epee except that they were often dress accoutrements for gentry in the 18th and 19th century. I have been told that the markings on the hilt, grip, and pommel may indicate it was made in Holland however there are no maker’s marks visible. I am unsure of the age of this epee. I am certainly no expert and may be wrong but looking at the great condition I would have assumed it did not have a lot of age, perhaps this was a diplomats sword in the first half of the 20th century? There is an age patina on some parts of the handle but the triangular blade is almost pristine and looks to be nickel plated? The scabbard is leather bound and appears to have some age cracks. A difficult example to research as I have found very little to compare.

If there are any epee experts out there that can assist me in my enquiries? I would be appreciative!

Thank you

Kind regards,
Chris

P.S I apologise that the pics are not the best, will post better pics if desired!

Atlantia · 23rd December 2012, 11:25 AM

Hi Chris,

These are a lot of fun!
As you say this is a 'court sword' and as such is the final development of the rapier/smallsword.
Your example is good if fairly 'utilitarian' as they go, with a simple cut steel hilt, in what seems to be very good condition.
There are many slight variations of that type, decorated blades and hilts that can be very complex.
The blade is of the same section as the last one that I had. I bet it's good steel with a wicked needle point!

Although this type as you point out are 20th century, they are completely 'live' in the way they are made and every bit as deadly as the small swords of previous centuries!

It would be hard to think of so long a development of sword technology as the one that led to this sword.
The perfect way for wealthy gentlemen to kill each other indoors or out with the mimimum of mess and without having to inconvenience themselves by carrying a cumbersome heavy sword!

Perfection of form and function.

Jim McDougall · 23rd December 2012, 11:49 AM

Hi Chris,
An extremely handsome example of what Gene has well described as a court sword. As he also notes, these indeed were not only for fashion , but could be most effective as a weapon as required.
The turned down guard shell is very much like mid 19th century and into the 20th century styles used as dress swords in civil service classifications and various diplomatic circumstances as you have observed.
The 'cut steel' approach in this design does seem to recall the English smallsword designs of Matthew Boulton and various associated makers of the end of the 18th century in style, but the sword itself much later.

The floral device is indeed mindful of the device often seen on some blades from Holland, but I recall seeing something similar, I think concerning Maximilian I of Bavaria, using this 'sunflower' on his sabres. I need to find those notes (it may have been in Wagner). Also, I have a court type sword from Austria with this turned down guard from c.1900, it seems like it was a funerary sword (listed some time ago as a 'corpse carriers' or pall bearer) and it was blackened iron.

Will check further, may be more in Dean (1929).

Most attractive court epee!!!

All the best,
Jim

christek · 24th December 2012, 03:17 AM

Hello Gentlemen,

Thank you for your quick reply and kind comments regarding my court sword.

I have finally found a very similar sword for comparison; this one was sold by Fontaine's Auction Gallery in Jan 2010. It was listed as follows;
Small or Court Sword (Victorian), England, 19th Century. Cut steel hilt with faceted studs; urn-type pommel with tang button. Cut steel turn-down guard decorated with faceted rivets and three etched stars; small pas-d`anes; knuckle bow with faceted studs. 30 ¼" double-edged straight blade with triangular hollow ground. Black leather scabbard with two steel mounts with banded motifs and faceted frog button.

The similarities are evident and the condition is comparable, I wonder if my example was made by the same manufacturers, although unfortunately this example appears to be lacking any markings as well. While it is possible that the sellers got the age wrong, I will remain hopeful that my epee is from the late 19th Century!

Have a great holiday, thank you.

Kind regards,
Chris

23rd December 2012, 03:15 AM	#1
christek Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 52	Epee for ID help please Greetings all! Here I have a beautiful (English?) small-sword or epee. I know very little regarding the epee except that they were often dress accoutrements for gentry in the 18th and 19th century. I have been told that the markings on the hilt, grip, and pommel may indicate it was made in Holland however there are no maker’s marks visible. I am unsure of the age of this epee. I am certainly no expert and may be wrong but looking at the great condition I would have assumed it did not have a lot of age, perhaps this was a diplomats sword in the first half of the 20th century? There is an age patina on some parts of the handle but the triangular blade is almost pristine and looks to be nickel plated? The scabbard is leather bound and appears to have some age cracks. A difficult example to research as I have found very little to compare. If there are any epee experts out there that can assist me in my enquiries? I would be appreciative! Thank you Kind regards, Chris P.S I apologise that the pics are not the best, will post better pics if desired! Attached Images

24th December 2012, 03:17 AM	#4
christek Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 52	Hello Gentlemen, Thank you for your quick reply and kind comments regarding my court sword. I have finally found a very similar sword for comparison; this one was sold by Fontaine's Auction Gallery in Jan 2010. It was listed as follows; Small or Court Sword (Victorian), England, 19th Century. Cut steel hilt with faceted studs; urn-type pommel with tang button. Cut steel turn-down guard decorated with faceted rivets and three etched stars; small pas-d`anes; knuckle bow with faceted studs. 30 ¼" double-edged straight blade with triangular hollow ground. Black leather scabbard with two steel mounts with banded motifs and faceted frog button. The similarities are evident and the condition is comparable, I wonder if my example was made by the same manufacturers, although unfortunately this example appears to be lacking any markings as well. While it is possible that the sellers got the age wrong, I will remain hopeful that my epee is from the late 19th Century! Have a great holiday, thank you. Kind regards, Chris Attached Images Last edited by christek; 24th December 2012 at 03:22 AM. Reason: better photos

23rd December 2012, 11:25 AM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Chris, These are a lot of fun! As you say this is a 'court sword' and as such is the final development of the rapier/smallsword. Your example is good if fairly 'utilitarian' as they go, with a simple cut steel hilt, in what seems to be very good condition. There are many slight variations of that type, decorated blades and hilts that can be very complex. The blade is of the same section as the last one that I had. I bet it's good steel with a wicked needle point! Although this type as you point out are 20th century, they are completely 'live' in the way they are made and every bit as deadly as the small swords of previous centuries! It would be hard to think of so long a development of sword technology as the one that led to this sword. The perfect way for wealthy gentlemen to kill each other indoors or out with the mimimum of mess and without having to inconvenience themselves by carrying a cumbersome heavy sword! Perfection of form and function.

23rd December 2012, 11:49 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Hi Chris, An extremely handsome example of what Gene has well described as a court sword. As he also notes, these indeed were not only for fashion , but could be most effective as a weapon as required. The turned down guard shell is very much like mid 19th century and into the 20th century styles used as dress swords in civil service classifications and various diplomatic circumstances as you have observed. The 'cut steel' approach in this design does seem to recall the English smallsword designs of Matthew Boulton and various associated makers of the end of the 18th century in style, but the sword itself much later. The floral device is indeed mindful of the device often seen on some blades from Holland, but I recall seeing something similar, I think concerning Maximilian I of Bavaria, using this 'sunflower' on his sabres. I need to find those notes (it may have been in Wagner). Also, I have a court type sword from Austria with this turned down guard from c.1900, it seems like it was a funerary sword (listed some time ago as a 'corpse carriers' or pall bearer) and it was blackened iron. Will check further, may be more in Dean (1929). Most attractive court epee!!! All the best, Jim