Bugis keris :Owned by or a gift to Makassar walikota 1967 ?

Green · 17th October 2018, 02:20 PM

Here is my new keris which I have not received yet. The pics are from the seller.

I hope some of you can answer a few questions about this keris.

1) The sheath has inscription that is clearly written: Indonesia kotamadya Makassar M.Dg Patompo. And on the other side Sept 1967

What does M. Dg Patompo means?. One Sulawesi friend mentioned that is "Walikota Makassar" . Another didn't know (I guess he meant about the keris) .

2: The keris is a classic bugis form but not uncommon and the hilt is only made from wood , so my guess is, this keris is not originally owned by a Makassar mayor but most likely a gift to the mayor (if indeed the writing refers to the mayor. What occasion and what kind of people give this kind of gifts in Sulawesi culture?

3: The pendokok is probably brass but looks like it is awkwardly fixed on a small ring ?. Is the small ring at the base of the keris is a part of the original pendokok?

Thanks in advance.

Rick · 17th October 2018, 04:23 PM

Well, wrong or right; this example has been configured this way since I purchased it on ebay many years ago. The handle is so checked and firmly attached that I have never attempted to remove it.

David · 17th October 2018, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Well, wrong or right; this example has been configured this way since I purchased it on ebay many years ago. The handle is so checked and firmly attached that I have never attempted to remove it.

Rick, your configuration puts the disc-like piece in a different position. It does look awkward in Green's ensemble and i think maybe someone re-assembled it incorrectly.

Sajen · 17th October 2018, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Rick, your configuration puts the disc-like piece in a different position. It does look awkward in Green's ensemble and i think maybe someone re-assembled it incorrectly.

Hello David,

I think that there is a lower part missing at Green's example, the small ring part under the cup looks very original to my eyes.

BTW, great google work with the Jalan H. M Dg. Patompo!

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 17th October 2018, 09:49 PM

Indonesia has a strong thread of militarism running through it. One of the products of this is that words get abbreviated and become acronyms (singkatan). In newspapers and magazines these acronyms proliferate to the extent that ordinary people often cannot understand an item of news --- and that's OK, because if they cannot understand it due to the use of acronyms, then it is obvious they were not intended to understand it. So you get the situation where people will ask one another what a particular acronym means, sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. From time to time newspapers will publish a list of new acronyms, so people can follow the text.
There is a flow on from this official use of acronyms that is extremely unfortunate in development of the use of language and improvement of education --- but I won't go there.

In any case, in respect of "H. M Dg."

Dg. is an easy one, it is an abbreviation of "Daeng", which is a title in Southern Sulawesi.

In this case, "H" would be an abbreviation for "Haji", and "M" would be "Mohamad".

So:- Haji Mohamad Daeng Patompo.

There are other words that "H" can be an acronym for, and other words that "M" can be an acronym for, but in this case the words I have given are the most probable.

Now, Haji Mohamad Daeng Patompo was a very wealthy Bugis merchant who lived in Singapore in the early years of the 2oth century. My memory is that his name was much longer than that, but I've forgotten the rest of it. I think there was some story that he was actually Bugis/Chinese.

Incidentally, the word "Daeng" does not mean the same as "Walikota", or in English "Mayor". In Southern Sulawesi it is is a title of respect that would be given to an older person, or a person who because of social position or personal characteristics was regarded as "older".

The word "Kotamadya" is equivalent to "municipality" in English, possibly this might be what caused the confusion that "Daeng" is equivalent to "Mayor" or "Walikota". It would be reasonable to accept that perhaps a Walikota might be given the title of respect of "Daeng", because of his position, but "Daeng" does not equate to "Walikota".

But how does all that fit with a date of 1967?

Somebody else can have a go at explaining that, its beyond me.

David · 17th October 2018, 10:49 PM

That is all very useful information Alan.
But if i might draw everyone's attention to this link of TRADITION, ISLAM, AND REBELLION: SOUTH SULAWESI 1950-1965
HARVEY, BARBARA SILLARS:
http://www.oxis.org/theses/harvey-1974.pdf

If you scroll down to the acknowledgements you will find the following paragraph.
"Others helped in ways less obvious in the final product, but none- theless important, in what might be called logistical support. I would like particularly to thank those who made me so much a part of their own famiies: the Ma'Moen Soemadipradjas in Jakarta, Drs. and Mrs. J. A. Damopolii in Menado, and Mayor and Mrs. M. Daeng Patompo in Ujung Pandang."

I would suggest that given the time frame and the fact that this M. Dg. Patompo was in fact a Mayor that they are likely one in the same. The city of Makassar was apparently renamed Ujung Pandang from 1971-1999.

David · 17th October 2018, 04:49 PM

There is an address in Makassar, Jalan H. M Dg. Patompo, Makassar, though there is also an author by the same or similar name and the address (a road perhaps) may have been named after him. I think perhaps this was the name of the person, perhaps this author, that the keris was presented to in 1967.

17th October 2018, 02:20 PM	#1
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 307	Bugis keris :Owned by or a gift to Makassar walikota 1967 ? Here is my new keris which I have not received yet. The pics are from the seller. I hope some of you can answer a few questions about this keris. 1) The sheath has inscription that is clearly written: Indonesia kotamadya Makassar M.Dg Patompo. And on the other side Sept 1967 What does M. Dg Patompo means?. One Sulawesi friend mentioned that is "Walikota Makassar" . Another didn't know (I guess he meant about the keris) . 2: The keris is a classic bugis form but not uncommon and the hilt is only made from wood , so my guess is, this keris is not originally owned by a Makassar mayor but most likely a gift to the mayor (if indeed the writing refers to the mayor. What occasion and what kind of people give this kind of gifts in Sulawesi culture? 3: The pendokok is probably brass but looks like it is awkwardly fixed on a small ring ?. Is the small ring at the base of the keris is a part of the original pendokok? Thanks in advance. Attached Images

17th October 2018, 04:23 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Well, wrong or right; this example has been configured this way since I purchased it on ebay many years ago. The handle is so checked and firmly attached that I have never attempted to remove it. Attached Images

17th October 2018, 09:49 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,700	Indonesia has a strong thread of militarism running through it. One of the products of this is that words get abbreviated and become acronyms (singkatan). In newspapers and magazines these acronyms proliferate to the extent that ordinary people often cannot understand an item of news --- and that's OK, because if they cannot understand it due to the use of acronyms, then it is obvious they were not intended to understand it. So you get the situation where people will ask one another what a particular acronym means, sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. From time to time newspapers will publish a list of new acronyms, so people can follow the text. There is a flow on from this official use of acronyms that is extremely unfortunate in development of the use of language and improvement of education --- but I won't go there. In any case, in respect of "H. M Dg." Dg. is an easy one, it is an abbreviation of "Daeng", which is a title in Southern Sulawesi. In this case, "H" would be an abbreviation for "Haji", and "M" would be "Mohamad". So:- Haji Mohamad Daeng Patompo. There are other words that "H" can be an acronym for, and other words that "M" can be an acronym for, but in this case the words I have given are the most probable. Now, Haji Mohamad Daeng Patompo was a very wealthy Bugis merchant who lived in Singapore in the early years of the 2oth century. My memory is that his name was much longer than that, but I've forgotten the rest of it. I think there was some story that he was actually Bugis/Chinese. Incidentally, the word "Daeng" does not mean the same as "Walikota", or in English "Mayor". In Southern Sulawesi it is is a title of respect that would be given to an older person, or a person who because of social position or personal characteristics was regarded as "older". The word "Kotamadya" is equivalent to "municipality" in English, possibly this might be what caused the confusion that "Daeng" is equivalent to "Mayor" or "Walikota". It would be reasonable to accept that perhaps a Walikota might be given the title of respect of "Daeng", because of his position, but "Daeng" does not equate to "Walikota". But how does all that fit with a date of 1967? Somebody else can have a go at explaining that, its beyond me. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 17th October 2018 at 10:11 PM.

17th October 2018, 10:49 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	That is all very useful information Alan. But if i might draw everyone's attention to this link of TRADITION, ISLAM, AND REBELLION: SOUTH SULAWESI 1950-1965 HARVEY, BARBARA SILLARS: http://www.oxis.org/theses/harvey-1974.pdf If you scroll down to the acknowledgements you will find the following paragraph. "Others helped in ways less obvious in the final product, but none- theless important, in what might be called logistical support. I would like particularly to thank those who made me so much a part of their own famiies: the Ma'Moen Soemadipradjas in Jakarta, Drs. and Mrs. J. A. Damopolii in Menado, and Mayor and Mrs. M. Daeng Patompo in Ujung Pandang." I would suggest that given the time frame and the fact that this M. Dg. Patompo was in fact a Mayor that they are likely one in the same. The city of Makassar was apparently renamed Ujung Pandang from 1971-1999. Last edited by David; 17th October 2018 at 11:59 PM.

17th October 2018, 04:49 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	There is an address in Makassar, Jalan H. M Dg. Patompo, Makassar, though there is also an author by the same or similar name and the address (a road perhaps) may have been named after him. I think perhaps this was the name of the person, perhaps this author, that the keris was presented to in 1967.