Afghan? Tulwar?

ariel · 6th April 2009, 12:02 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_893wt_1357

Emanuel · 6th April 2009, 12:23 AM

The blade looks like a sossoun pata / yataghan, hilt is reminiscent of the Nepali cora.

ariel · 6th April 2009, 06:03 AM

Looks perfectly saber-ish to me, I do not see any down-curving of the blade.
African handles on military blades?

Emanuel · 6th April 2009, 02:12 PM

I missed those...looks like Manding handles. Looking at the bevels it looked like the edge was concave.

Lew · 6th April 2009, 06:11 PM

Yes these seem to be West African with European blades.

Jim McDougall · 6th April 2009, 06:27 PM

Most interesting tag on this item.
I am in complete accord with the African assessments. These type hilts are typical of West African type often associated with Sierra Leone, and they certainly diffused well into interior to the east with trade. They seem mid 19th century to later as a rule, but as with most native weapons, often refurbished many times as either traded or handed down.
The blade is yet another example of reprofiled British M1796 light cavalry blades. These, as surplus, ended up throughout trade centers well into the 19th century, and are often seen on the so called 'Berber' sabres that are now believed from Latin American regions rather than distinctly Moroccan.

All best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 6th April 2009, 07:57 PM

Could very easily be Ethiopian handles.

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2009, 04:34 PM

I think the Abyssinian or Ethiopian shotel hilts are more of a singular stylized 'H' figure, despite the fact that I believe sometimes they are composite.
While the Ethiopian suggestion seems possible joined with the fact that the British furnished that country with blades in the latter 19th century well into the 20th, I still believe these are West African hilts. These rondel placed beveled discs on these guards are typical of many I have seen from these regions.
When considering the ever present diffusion of material culture, weapons, etc. in Africa via the constant flux of trade routes, nomadic cultures and tribal interaction.....of course anything is possible

Basically I am simply noting that the preponderence of examples I have seen of these hilts are in West African regions.

6th April 2009, 12:02 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Afghan? Tulwar? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_893wt_1357

6th April 2009, 12:23 AM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	pics for posterity... The blade looks like a sossoun pata / yataghan, hilt is reminiscent of the Nepali cora. Attached Images

6th April 2009, 06:03 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Looks perfectly saber-ish to me, I do not see any down-curving of the blade. African handles on military blades?

6th April 2009, 02:12 PM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I missed those...looks like Manding handles. Looking at the bevels it looked like the edge was concave.

6th April 2009, 06:11 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Yes these seem to be West African with European blades.

6th April 2009, 06:27 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,764	Most interesting tag on this item. I am in complete accord with the African assessments. These type hilts are typical of West African type often associated with Sierra Leone, and they certainly diffused well into interior to the east with trade. They seem mid 19th century to later as a rule, but as with most native weapons, often refurbished many times as either traded or handed down. The blade is yet another example of reprofiled British M1796 light cavalry blades. These, as surplus, ended up throughout trade centers well into the 19th century, and are often seen on the so called 'Berber' sabres that are now believed from Latin American regions rather than distinctly Moroccan. All best regards, Jim

6th April 2009, 07:57 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Could very easily be Ethiopian handles.

7th April 2009, 04:34 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,764	I think the Abyssinian or Ethiopian shotel hilts are more of a singular stylized 'H' figure, despite the fact that I believe sometimes they are composite. While the Ethiopian suggestion seems possible joined with the fact that the British furnished that country with blades in the latter 19th century well into the 20th, I still believe these are West African hilts. These rondel placed beveled discs on these guards are typical of many I have seen from these regions. When considering the ever present diffusion of material culture, weapons, etc. in Africa via the constant flux of trade routes, nomadic cultures and tribal interaction.....of course anything is possible Basically I am simply noting that the preponderence of examples I have seen of these hilts are in West African regions.