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Old 3rd October 2006, 11:04 AM   #1
the_Nazgul
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Default Yatagan questions

Hi!

I recently got 2 yatagan swords as a present from my grandmother.
I already posted those pictures in the german Messerforum and got the hint to ask here for more information.
I added some pictures and some closeups of the inscriptions.
Maybe someone can help me to find out more about origin and age of those pieces.
Also the question came up if the blades could be made of wootz steel. Could that be possible?
Thanks in advance for any help.

greetings from Vienna,

Eugen aka the_Nazgul
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Old 3rd October 2006, 04:17 PM   #2
Zifir
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I would definitely like to get such presents too, but no luck so far

Ya Muhammed kıl şefa'at ümmetindir Hasan

O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of Hasan,
who is one of your Ummah (community of believers).



Bıçak elde gerek dilde sübhan

"One should have sword(knife) in his hands and the Subhan (popular name for Sorat Al-Isra from Quran) in his tongue."



1216 Amal-i Mustafa Sahib Hasan Beşe

Year 1801/2 Swordmaker Mustafa Owner Hasan Beşe( beşe title suggests that he was a janissary)



Amal-i Ahmed Alemdar sahib İbrahim Ağa sene 1116

Sword maker Ahmed Alemdar (alemdar is another janissary title used by subordinate officers) Owner İbrahim Ağa Year 1704/5

I have difficulty in reading the second line, maybe a better picture helps.


Last edited by Zifir; 3rd October 2006 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 3rd October 2006, 05:26 PM   #3
Valjhun
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Hi Nazgul!

You have two verry nice pieces there. The first is the most typical example of Sarajevo manufacture from 19th century. The hilt seems to be bone. The mountings could be newer than the blade. I would guess around 1850-1880.

The second one is a real sweetie. Balkan provvenience also, but more difficult to say for exactly and The mountings seems contemporary. The hilt is walrus ivory.

Any chances you want to sell the pair?
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Old 3rd October 2006, 05:47 PM   #4
spiral
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Both look like walrus ivory to me. Just the core pattern is more evident in the darker one & was from a larger tusk.

Spiral
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Old 3rd October 2006, 05:54 PM   #5
Rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiral
Both look like walrus ivory to me. Just the core pattern is more evident in the darker one & was from a larger tusk.

Spiral
Agreed .
The stuff was also known as fish bone if I recall correctly.

Two very lovely Yataghans !
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Old 3rd October 2006, 06:43 PM   #6
the_Nazgul
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Thanks for the translation Zifir!

Sorry Valjhun, but I won't sell them. I guess I won't be that lucky a second time to get such a present
My grandfather (who I've never met, he died long before my birth) purchased those two pieces in the 1950s, but my grandmother had no further informatin about them. But she knows about my gread interest for blades of all kinds

@ariel - ok, so no wootz steel in yatagans. Thanks for the info!

I attached two more pictures of the inscriptions on the larger one (I just noticed I only uploaded a photo of one of the two inscriptions so far)
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Old 4th October 2006, 12:26 AM   #7
erlikhan
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Very nice pieces.Completely original and intact with no restorations. Zifir,your existence here is a great plus,as the only member who can read and translate Turkish written in Ottoman alphabet. I must learn that too,when I find some free time.I just need to ask about the date on the first one. It must be 1216 instead of 1116,not? I think age would matter a lot on the rarity and price of a piece so intact and complete,especially if it is an early date like 1704.
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Old 3rd October 2006, 05:54 PM   #8
ariel
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Wish I had grandmothers like yours....
Very nice Yataghans. Traditionally, ivory hiltswith corals and repoussed scabbards were attributed to the Balkans.
As to wootz..... Rarely were Yataghans made of mechanical Damascus, and most of those that were , had "Turkish ribbon" as a pattern. I do not think I've ever seen a wootz Yataghan . Wootz was primarily an Iranian specialty and they were not fond of the Ottoman Turks or their national weapons.
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