Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th December 2019, 09:12 PM   #1
G. Mansfield
Member
 
G. Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 75
Default Yataghan for Translation

Hello everybody, I bought myself a little Christmas present but I am unable to read it unfortunately. I am looking for somebody who can translate. Hopefully, a town, maker and/or owner in the script. On the spine I can interpret a date of 1241=(1825). I am not fully positive, but I am thinking this example to be Ottoman Turkish with Persian styling gold writing, blackened blade with a deep fuller, silver ornaments, and walrus grips. Total length is approximately 75.6cm

Regards,
-Geoff
Attached Images
        
G. Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2019, 09:16 PM   #2
G. Mansfield
Member
 
G. Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 75
Default

Forgot two of the whole sword
Attached Images
  
G. Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2019, 02:18 AM   #3
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,132
Default

What wonderful koftgari work!
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2019, 08:09 AM   #4
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,859
Default

What a beauty! Congratulations!
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2020, 12:14 PM   #5
kwiatek
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 153
Default

Beautiful!

The larger inscription in two lines are a Turkish couplet, which I've seen on other pieces of this date and type

ياقلاشمه يانمه سيف سياستمله يانارسين
زخمني كوردكده جراح مومله ارارسين

"Do not approach my side, for you will be burnt by my sword of punishment,
On seeing the wound, you will urgently seek a surgeon."

In the cartouche next to this towards the hilt is the maker/owner's name. This is not very clear from the photo, but a better image would help. What I think it is, is:

عمل صاحب ماناو علي آغا زاده صالح

'Work of the owner, Salih, son of Manav Ali Agha."

In the cartouche on the spine is the date

(سنة ٢٤١(١

"Year (1)241 (1825-6)"

As is often the case with the Ottomans, the initial 1 for the millennium is missing
kwiatek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2020, 08:51 PM   #6
G. Mansfield
Member
 
G. Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 75
Default

Thank You Kwiatek for the translation and everyone else for the positive feedback. This item is one of the nicer ones in my collection. As per request Kwiatek, Attached is a closer image of the cartouche with writing. I hope this helps! Many thanks in advance.

Best,
-Geoff
Attached Images
 
G. Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2020, 10:09 AM   #7
kwiatek
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 153
Default

That's much clearer. The initial reading of the owner's/maker's name as "Manav Ali Agha-zade Salih (Salih, son of Manav Ali Agha)" is correct
kwiatek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2020, 05:09 PM   #8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

Dear Kwiatek,

I would just like to say how much your very hard work is being received and how important it is to have such excellent translations delivered at almost the press of a button … Your translations are superb. Not only that but you fully appreciate the nuances in Arabic and how it plays out across neighboring regions. Thank you very much.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2020, 12:39 AM   #9
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Totally naive question: isn’t “ Zade” Persian?
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2020, 03:41 PM   #10
kwiatek
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 153
Default

Thank you Ibrahim, I am sure you will pick up on a lot of mistakes too, so please correct them when you notice them!

In answer to Ariel's question, yes zade is Persian, but it's also found in Ottoman Turkish. Probably a good third of Ottoman Turkish vocabulary has a Persian origin.
kwiatek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.