Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2nd January 2020, 11:58 AM   #1
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,160
Default Choora from Afghanistan?

The first day in the new year brought me this fine knife. I think it is a choora made in Afghanistan but am not sure about this. Comments are invited.
corrado26
Attached Images
            
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2020, 04:10 PM   #2
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Better than average!
Bolster most likely from " white brass" : >49% zinc. Identifying it is simple, but not practical on finished and engraved parts : get a good sample of fine filings and add just a bit of strong vinegar. Zinc will start emitting bubbles.

Unfortunately, they are virtually never dated; my guess second half of the 19th- beginning of 20th century.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2020, 04:38 PM   #3
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,713
Default

Do you think the blade it wootz?
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2020, 05:10 PM   #4
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,160
Default

I am not sure but think no.
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2020, 02:19 AM   #5
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

White brass, although mechanically inferior, was often used to imitate silver. In this example we can see yellow ( brassy) areas here and there. My guess the mixture was not sufficiently homogenized, suggesting rather primitive melting and casting technique. Mahsud tribesmen were not very demanding from the esthetic point of view; for them excellent was the worst enemy of the good enough:-) Right-o, buddies!
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2020, 12:58 PM   #6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

More examples of this weapon can be compared at https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/choora-dagger/

AND at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search...archid=1777748 a broad choice of detail on this dagger.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2020, 01:17 PM   #7
Lee
EAAF Staff
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 881
Default

Quick non-destructive elemental analysis of metallic components may be made by X-ray fluorescence (XRF). A local scrapyard or precious metals dealer may have a such unit for scrap sorting and offer a quick check for a nominal fee.
Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2020, 01:47 PM   #8
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,859
Default

Beautiful example. Congratulations!

In my oppinion, Ariel provided an accurate assesment.

I do not think it is that important whether the front bolster is silver or another silver metal. It is more important that the bolster is in good condition and nicely decorated.

The blade might be wootz as it can be older than the mountings. I would definitely consider cleaning and etching it.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2020, 12:52 AM   #9
Cthulhu
Member
 
Cthulhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central Valley, California
Posts: 46
Default

Nice one. I like the carving on the spine of the blade and the thickened edge.

Is the grip made of bone, or ivory? It looks very smooth and white, which makes me think bone, but I'm no expert.
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2020, 05:14 AM   #10
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Lee is 100% correct.
My” quick and dirty” approach can be used ONLY if the non-destructive one is not feasible , but the itch to know the composition of the metal is overwhelming.
As I mentioned before , this is not something I would do to my items. But chemistry has it charms:-)
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2020, 07:50 AM   #11
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu


Is the grip made of bone, or ivory? It looks very smooth and white, which makes me think bone, but I'm no expert.

I think it's bone
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2020, 10:46 AM   #12
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,859
Default

I believe it is absolutely nonsensical to submit the piece to any special testing for silver.

If you are just slightly familiar with silver, you should be able to know. There are very few alloys that are practically undistinguishable from silver.

Moreover, if it is silver, in a couple of weeks/months will develop some blackish oxidation.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2020, 12:34 PM   #13
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Also true.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2020, 01:51 PM   #14
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
I believe it is absolutely nonsensical to submit the piece to any special testing for silver.

That's my opinion too. The value of these few silverparts - if it should really be silver - is so little that it is absolutely neglectible. Important for me is a good looking and original item with signs of old patina and use.

Thanks for all your comments!
corrado26
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.