Unknown Indonesian sword for comment; Sleeper!

Montino Bourbon · 28th February 2005, 04:57 PM

Dear Friends; I picked this up in a pawnshop here in town. The scabbard was damaged, so I got it for a pretty good price.

The blade intrigued me because of its pamor, and because I believe that the markings on the edge are 'bulan', or 'moons', which supposedly are marks of a good blade.

Can anybody help me with identification?

Conogre · 28th February 2005, 05:20 PM

That is an exquisite find!!!!
I'd almost think it was a rehilted Opi if it weren't for the inward curve near the ferule.
My guess is that it's a Sumatran klewang, but with a blade far older (possibly early to mid 19th century) than the hilt and scabbard and definitely a keeper by anyone's standards.
Congratulations on a wonderful addition to your collection.
Mike

Montino Bourbon · 2nd March 2005, 02:24 PM

Dear Conogre; thank you so much for your comment; I have been trying to find out more about this klewang for some time.

Would it help to publish better pics? I'm still learning to take good close-ups.

Would you say that the pamor near the hilt is batu lapak?

Again, thank you for your expertise.

Montino Bourbon · 2nd March 2005, 02:28 PM

Threr is a Sumba kabeala on ebay that has a blade of the same shape as this; item # 7303141351

Conogre · 2nd March 2005, 11:13 PM

Actually, the Sumba kabeala appears to be different to my eye in that yours has a slight inward curve to the belly along the rear edge as it nears the hilt.
If you look in Von Zonneveld's "Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago" you'll see a Elida from Flores with a much more similar blade, and on pages 135-139 there are several of the Timor group swords with figs. 573 and 575 listed as Tanimbar swords that have similar hilts as well.
While the extremely primitive heavily watered pamor would give a Japanese afficionado nightmares, I find it particularly attractive.
I also think that you're barking up the wrong tree looking for a particular "pamor" as in keris blades for rather than having a specific "magic enchantment" these tended to more along the lines of "cuts the head off very well" empowerment.
Here's an Opi from Weter Island (according to Stone, pg 476, fig. 602 ) with a pamor similar to yours that I was lucky enough to get from Artzi at "Oriental Arms" when he was having a particularly bad day, listed as "an old klewang".
I almost broke my keyboard firing off a purchase offer!! **grin** Mike

Montino Bourbon · 3rd March 2005, 12:57 AM

Dear Conogre; As it happens, Artzi has a Sumatran klewang (under 'new', and also on hold) with exactly that inward curve near the ferule that you describe; but if you look at the blade of his and mine in comparison, his looks like it has no visible pamor at all.

Conogre · 3rd March 2005, 03:50 AM

If you're referring to the one on the first page, the resemblance is only superficial...those are heavier near the hilt and have a rounded, as opposed to sharply angled blade end.
It's been my experience that the blades such as ours are very often older blades that were tribally forged under primitive village jungle conditions, with the "flawless" blades frequently newer and/or forged in or near cities and urban areas.
To me, part of the appeal is the tribal aspect working under conditions that most of us would find impossible.
Mike

28th February 2005, 04:57 PM	#1
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 295	Unknown Indonesian sword for comment; Sleeper! Dear Friends; I picked this up in a pawnshop here in town. The scabbard was damaged, so I got it for a pretty good price. The blade intrigued me because of its pamor, and because I believe that the markings on the edge are 'bulan', or 'moons', which supposedly are marks of a good blade. Can anybody help me with identification? Attached Images

2nd March 2005, 02:24 PM	#3
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 295	Thank you so much! Dear Conogre; thank you so much for your comment; I have been trying to find out more about this klewang for some time. Would it help to publish better pics? I'm still learning to take good close-ups. Would you say that the pamor near the hilt is batu lapak? Again, thank you for your expertise.

2nd March 2005, 02:28 PM	#4
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 295	possible kabeala? Threr is a Sumba kabeala on ebay that has a blade of the same shape as this; item # 7303141351

2nd March 2005, 11:13 PM	#5
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Actually, the Sumba kabeala appears to be different to my eye in that yours has a slight inward curve to the belly along the rear edge as it nears the hilt. If you look in Von Zonneveld's "Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago" you'll see a Elida from Flores with a much more similar blade, and on pages 135-139 there are several of the Timor group swords with figs. 573 and 575 listed as Tanimbar swords that have similar hilts as well. While the extremely primitive heavily watered pamor would give a Japanese afficionado nightmares, I find it particularly attractive. I also think that you're barking up the wrong tree looking for a particular "pamor" as in keris blades for rather than having a specific "magic enchantment" these tended to more along the lines of "cuts the head off very well" empowerment. Here's an Opi from Weter Island (according to Stone, pg 476, fig. 602 ) with a pamor similar to yours that I was lucky enough to get from Artzi at "Oriental Arms" when he was having a particularly bad day, listed as "an old klewang". I almost broke my keyboard firing off a purchase offer!! grin Mike Attached Images

28th February 2005, 05:20 PM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	That is an exquisite find!!!! I'd almost think it was a rehilted Opi if it weren't for the inward curve near the ferule. My guess is that it's a Sumatran klewang, but with a blade far older (possibly early to mid 19th century) than the hilt and scabbard and definitely a keeper by anyone's standards. Congratulations on a wonderful addition to your collection. Mike

3rd March 2005, 12:57 AM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 295	Dear Conogre; As it happens, Artzi has a Sumatran klewang (under 'new', and also on hold) with exactly that inward curve near the ferule that you describe; but if you look at the blade of his and mine in comparison, his looks like it has no visible pamor at all.

3rd March 2005, 03:50 AM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	If you're referring to the one on the first page, the resemblance is only superficial...those are heavier near the hilt and have a rounded, as opposed to sharply angled blade end. It's been my experience that the blades such as ours are very often older blades that were tribally forged under primitive village jungle conditions, with the "flawless" blades frequently newer and/or forged in or near cities and urban areas. To me, part of the appeal is the tribal aspect working under conditions that most of us would find impossible. Mike