Java keris?????

Tim Simmons · 2nd September 2008, 07:19 PM

I think I have finally found a haft okay keris, not worn out, weapon strength, and worth keeping. The ring betwean the blade and the handle is silver but has some damage. A few balls missing, I could replace then? it might be the only thing about it that may suggest some age? The blade is quite highly patterned but the pics are in rather strong light and not good but I think you can get the idea from the dark picture

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Marcokeris · 2nd September 2008, 08:22 PM

Nice! I like a lot.
Good blade, good hit (put it in right position) , good mendak, very nice timoho gayaman (nearly sembur pattern ...very nice!)
Only the pendok i would change with another yoya pendok slorok (maybe with black lacquered)
Congratulations!

David · 2nd September 2008, 08:26 PM

Nice blade Tim. Simple and beautiful. I like the execution. Very nice tikel alis (the little eyebrow like indentation) on this one.

It is indeed from Jawa in Djogyakarta gayaman (everyday) dress. I'd say it it probably late 19th to early 20th century. Looks like a keeper to me.

Henk · 2nd September 2008, 08:44 PM

This is a real nice one, Tim. Dhapur is probably Djalak Ngore. All the other things are already said. A very honest Jogyakarta keris.
I wouldn't change the pendok. Restoring the mendak? If it really disturbs you... if you decide to do so, I would like to see the result in pics before and after. But the mendak seems to be in a very good shape as well.
Don't forget to oil the blade from time to time to keep it in this condition.

David · 2nd September 2008, 10:22 PM

I wouldn't change the pendok either. Looks like a nice old one still in pretty good condition.

asomotif · 2nd September 2008, 11:40 PM

Nice powerfull looking blade.

Pendok, seems just fine and perfect fit. would not change that.

Mendak... restore the silver balls ?
You mean by making these tiny small silver balls,and welding them on the mendak. Would love to see you do that.

Yes, would call this a keeper, even if you will get higher ranked more elaborated keris, it is nice to have a simple example like this around.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd September 2008, 11:43 PM

This is a nice old keris with good integrity.

Yes, the mendak does have very slight damage, but it is an old silver mendak, to find an undamaged replacement of the same age and type would be difficult, and it would be expensive.

Change nothing.

Nothing at all.

Rick · 3rd September 2008, 12:22 AM

Congratulations Tim !
Way to go .

A. G. Maisey · 3rd September 2008, 01:18 AM

Henk, recall our discussion of a few days ago re dhapur?

This keris is a good example of the traps in trying to give a dhapur.

This is a pretty simple keris---plain, basic, straightforward and with no complicated features.

You have said its probably jalak ngore. I understand why you've said this, there are a couple of indentations under the buntut urang that suggest the previous existence of greneng. However, if we were to add greneng to this keris, look at what would happen to the pawakan. It would finish up as a completely unbalanced keris, everything would be out of proportion. Thus, the indentations under the buntut urang cannot be regarded as residual greneng, but must be regarded as erosion.

Note where the indentations occur:- in a line with weld joints in the material, the place where erosion will occur first.

If it were residual greneng it could as easily be jalak sumelang gandring, or jalak tilam sari, or maybe pulang geni,and its certain that we can find any number of people to debate all these nominations.

Looking at what I can see in front of me today, my nomination would be tilam upih---and I could probably find those who wanted to debate that.

Dhapur is a trap best avoided.

drdavid · 3rd September 2008, 05:19 AM

Really nice keris Tim. Straightforwards, nice lines and in good condition. Definitely a keeper
David

Henk · 3rd September 2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Henk, recall our discussion of a few days ago re dhapur?

Let's not get too tied up with words.

Yes Alan, I do recall.
I have to admit I even did when I took the book of Tammens, thought to discover the dhapur of Tim's keris and posted my opinion.

I'm afraid that's the problem of us, humans. Desperately wanting to categorize things in a schedule.

But your explanation about the dhapur trap and the risk of the debate is very clear to me. Thank you for your lesson. I will try not to step in this trap again with both feet.
And if I do, just kick me. But please, a little bit careful

A. G. Maisey · 3rd September 2008, 02:11 PM

No Henk, no kicks.

Most of this sort of exchange is only opinion, and often my opinion is no better than anybody else's opinion.

Henk · 3rd September 2008, 02:29 PM

True, Alan. But do know your opinion is highly appreciated.

2nd September 2008, 07:19 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	Java keris????? I think I have finally found a haft okay keris, not worn out, weapon strength, and worth keeping. The ring betwean the blade and the handle is silver but has some damage. A few balls missing, I could replace then? it might be the only thing about it that may suggest some age? The blade is quite highly patterned but the pics are in rather strong light and not good but I think you can get the idea from the dark picture . Last edited by Tim Simmons; 2nd September 2008 at 07:31 PM.

2nd September 2008, 08:22 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Nice! I like a lot. Good blade, good hit (put it in right position) , good mendak, very nice timoho gayaman (nearly sembur pattern ...very nice!) Only the pendok i would change with another yoya pendok slorok (maybe with black lacquered) Congratulations!

2nd September 2008, 08:26 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Nice blade Tim. Simple and beautiful. I like the execution. Very nice tikel alis (the little eyebrow like indentation) on this one. It is indeed from Jawa in Djogyakarta gayaman (everyday) dress. I'd say it it probably late 19th to early 20th century. Looks like a keeper to me.

2nd September 2008, 08:44 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	This is a real nice one, Tim. Dhapur is probably Djalak Ngore. All the other things are already said. A very honest Jogyakarta keris. I wouldn't change the pendok. Restoring the mendak? If it really disturbs you... if you decide to do so, I would like to see the result in pics before and after. But the mendak seems to be in a very good shape as well. Don't forget to oil the blade from time to time to keep it in this condition.

2nd September 2008, 10:22 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	I wouldn't change the pendok either. Looks like a nice old one still in pretty good condition.

2nd September 2008, 11:40 PM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Nice powerfull looking blade. Pendok, seems just fine and perfect fit. would not change that. Mendak... restore the silver balls ? You mean by making these tiny small silver balls,and welding them on the mendak. Would love to see you do that. Yes, would call this a keeper, even if you will get higher ranked more elaborated keris, it is nice to have a simple example like this around.

2nd September 2008, 11:43 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	This is a nice old keris with good integrity. Yes, the mendak does have very slight damage, but it is an old silver mendak, to find an undamaged replacement of the same age and type would be difficult, and it would be expensive. Change nothing. Nothing at all.

3rd September 2008, 12:22 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Congratulations Tim ! Way to go .

3rd September 2008, 01:18 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Henk, recall our discussion of a few days ago re dhapur? This keris is a good example of the traps in trying to give a dhapur. This is a pretty simple keris---plain, basic, straightforward and with no complicated features. You have said its probably jalak ngore. I understand why you've said this, there are a couple of indentations under the buntut urang that suggest the previous existence of greneng. However, if we were to add greneng to this keris, look at what would happen to the pawakan. It would finish up as a completely unbalanced keris, everything would be out of proportion. Thus, the indentations under the buntut urang cannot be regarded as residual greneng, but must be regarded as erosion. Note where the indentations occur:- in a line with weld joints in the material, the place where erosion will occur first. If it were residual greneng it could as easily be jalak sumelang gandring, or jalak tilam sari, or maybe pulang geni,and its certain that we can find any number of people to debate all these nominations. Looking at what I can see in front of me today, my nomination would be tilam upih---and I could probably find those who wanted to debate that. Dhapur is a trap best avoided.

3rd September 2008, 05:19 AM	#10
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 369	Really nice keris Tim. Straightforwards, nice lines and in good condition. Definitely a keeper David

3rd September 2008, 02:11 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	No Henk, no kicks. Most of this sort of exchange is only opinion, and often my opinion is no better than anybody else's opinion.

3rd September 2008, 02:29 PM	#13
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	True, Alan. But do know your opinion is highly appreciated.