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Old 10th October 2017, 09:20 PM   #1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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The brilliant thread by Jim McDougall Early Makers Trade Marks has somehow disappeared. This is a vital piece of research information and had reached over 120 thousand hits. This is a cornerstone foundation of knowledge and is the Forum Library representative of stored knowledge for now and the future. Rather like a business institution Library or SEARCH is the very heartbeat of this Forum and is where investment is placed so that others may learn. It is a key strategic and important treatise in everything we do here.

It is requested that this gem of research be placed back in the crown jewels of forum data as presumably this is a temporary dislocation only perhaps for admin purposes? Congratulations to Jim on crashing through the 120,000 barrier with this most excellent flagship thread.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Jim McDougall : 15th October 2017 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 11th October 2017, 12:33 PM   #2
Lee
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This thread was not intentionally removed. Apparently, in the course of a moderator attempting to extract relevant portions of it to the EA, the software somehow permanently deleted the entire thread despite system settings disallowing such deletion. The system logs give no clue of how this happened.

I have recovered the first 3 pages from the WayBackWhenMachine (archive.org), but the remaining 8 could not be retrieved. If any member has made personal disk copies of those missing pages, as I recommend for any pages of particular personal importance to a member, I would appreciate receiving copies of them.
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Old 11th October 2017, 03:15 PM   #3
fernando
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Hello Ibrahiim,
Your lament on the recently colapsed thread is worthy of notice.
I ignore how you so promptly noticed such disruption, whether published HERE or through your permanent contact with Jim McDougall.
In any case i don't see how your mentioning "... as presumably this is a temporary dislocation only perhaps for admin purposes?..." is an adequate approach. Also noteworthy that you have posted your such notes in this Ethno forum and not in the Euro section where the quoted thread belongs; but this could only be an eventuality, of course.
As reiterated by Lee, this is a severe accident and the ultimate possibility to recover the thread would be that of some member having saved the thread missing pages to his hard disk for some optional reason and so kindly transmit them to the forum administrator.
On the other hand, being you a man of many talents, one can not discard the possibility that you are a person able to help fix this unpleasant problem .


.

Last edited by fernando : 11th October 2017 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 11th October 2017, 06:02 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
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Lee,
Thank you so much for your explanation of this situation and the steps which have been taken to find any resolution to this unfortunate incident.
As noted, this thread which I began in 2008, contained much valuable data and contributions by many members who participated in making it so successful. It was clearly highly trafficked by many who sought information concerning markings on European blades and typically using Google, were led to our pages.

Fernando,
As you have noted, Ibrahiim and I are in constant contact privately as we have conducted a great deal of research together on many topics and various arms being studied.
Actually I had thought that this thread was accessed through the CLASSIC THREADS sticky, and that particular thread was in this position in BOTH forums.
As you know, the fact that European blades often occur in ethnographic weapons has been a main criteria for this topic transcending both forums.
Actually both Ibrahiim and I access the thread quite a lot in our common research, just as did many as shown. This topic came to OUR attention when I was working on the query which you had moved from ethnographic to European, and YOU noted the issue, and I mentioned it to Ibrahiim.
Since it was openly mentioned by you in your post, it did not seem a matter that was classified.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:25 AM   #5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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[QUOTE=fernando]Hello Ibrahiim,
Your lament on the recently colapsed thread is worthy of notice.
I ignore how you so promptly noticed such disruption, whether published HERE or through your permanent contact with Jim McDougall.
In any case i don't see how your mentioning "... as presumably this is a temporary dislocation only perhaps for admin purposes?..." is an adequate approach. Also noteworthy that you have posted your such notes in this Ethno forum and not in the Euro section where the quoted thread belongs; but this could only be an eventuality, of course.
As reiterated by Lee, this is a severe accident and the ultimate possibility to recover the thread would be that of some member having saved the thread missing pages to his hard disk for some optional reason and so kindly transmit them to the forum administrator.
On the other hand, being you a man of many talents, one can not discard the possibility that you are a person able to help fix this unpleasant problem .



By Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
I do know a thing or two about data retrieval and Library content but I'm afraid that the whole thing other than apparently a few pages has been wiped out. This is indeed a catastrophe.

Your final paragraph being almost a question deserves answers.. In my view an immediate start should be made on retrieving the thread which is key to this Forum. In other words it has to be rebuilt from scratch and I see that the first 3 pages are intact.

On the situation of my conversations with other members of Forum I cannot comment since such transmissions are entirely confidential.

In my view constructive ideas and suggestions should be open house and allowed on Forum as for example my suggestion on data backup... and many other constructive points... like for example how difficult it is for non savvy computer members to actually use the device SEARCH... When all that is required are two boxes... Put in what you are looking for and press the Button !!!!

I have many ideas on how it ought to work... e.g. Data retrieval must be enhanced to give automatic hot referencing at the start of every new thread...of I suggest up to 5 References (chosen on hit count)...Automatic algorithm feed takes about point 1 of a second to achieve this...

Naturally in the light of this clanger... I recommend a thorough overhaul of the system... and an emphasis on Data Backup. Proper file back up must be implemented... However, this error must never happen again... and contributors must consider copying their work against such a disaster.


As an after note and since you mention it~ would it not be a good idea to also place this thread on European?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 12th October 2017 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
This thread was not intentionally removed. Apparently, in the course of a moderator attempting to extract relevant portions of it to the EA, the software somehow permanently deleted the entire thread despite system settings disallowing such deletion. The system logs give no clue of how this happened.

I have recovered the first 3 pages from the WayBackWhenMachine (archive.org), but the remaining 8 could not be retrieved. If any member has made personal disk copies of those missing pages, as I recommend for any pages of particular personal importance to a member, I would appreciate receiving copies of them.


Salaams Lee, Thank You for your post on this matter.

I regret I have no files copied from that thread and have searched but other than a few charts I have been unable to collect any data lost. The only hope may be that on the original machine it may have been sidelined to the retrieval device.(RECYCLE BIN)..I cannot see how it can have been simply jettisoned.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 12th October 2017 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:46 AM   #7
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See if this works folks: http://web.archive.org/web/20160501...read.php?t=5453

Took some work, but I think this has content up to 2016.

-Edit-
SIGH...NEVER MIND, I thought all the pages were there but, sadly, no.
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Old 12th October 2017, 02:27 AM   #8
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Nice try... Regret only the first page is there ... Its a start . That's the machine mentioned by Lee ... but the rest of the detail has vanished.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:57 AM   #9
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Old 13th October 2017, 05:48 AM   #10
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Excellent support !!
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:50 PM   #11
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No attachments, though .
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Old 13th October 2017, 05:12 PM   #12
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Here is a zip archive of what I have been able to recover from the early makers marks thread:
Early Makers Marks

Shayde78's image searches led me to explore caches of other search engines and the archive now consists of:

pages 1 - 3 courtesy of archive.org and including attachments
pages 4 - 6 courtesy of Bing, but without attachments
pages 8 - 9 courtesy of Bing, but without attachments
page 10 courtesy of Google, but without attachments

To view these files:
1) Download the zip file.
2) Extract the contents into an empty directory
3) Directly load the desired html page into your web browser (i.e. right click, open) from the extracted folder.

Notes:
1) You will not see the attachments if you open the html files directly from the zip file.
2) Some links within these documents will not work. You will have to directly open each of the html pages; you cannot navigate between them.
3) Page 7 was overwritten on Google and Yahoo's cache times out; there is no trace of page 11 but I still have another place to look.

--> If you have your own saved disk file of parts of this thread that are not included, please forward them to me and I'll include them in the zip file.

--> If you recognize missing images from this thread in shayde78's links or in your own archive, please either attach to this current thread or e-mail them to me (ljones@vikingsword.com) and I'll add them to this archive. Be sure to indicate which post the image is from; this is shown on the right of the bar with the post date and time.

Last edited by Lee : 14th October 2017 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Update
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Old 13th October 2017, 07:24 PM   #13
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If you do an image search like this :
or here

you can at least see some of the images that were lost. Sadly, you cannot view the page/accompanying text.
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