A large 19th century flintlock pistol

Pukka Bundook · 9th February 2021, 02:31 PM

"some of these marks had a different meaning depending on the dates they were used."

You are absolutely correct my dear friend.
I look forward to hearing of the information from the proof House.

Stay warm and safe. Here it is minus 40C again! (This is the same temp, (minus 40, if degrees F too. Both feel cold.) :-)
Up north it has been minus 72 degrees....

fernando · 9th February 2021, 02:58 PM

No reason to feel cold wih those sauna temperatures, Richard. The real thing is over here, with 13C (55F)

.
Stay safe, you too

.

corrado26 · 9th February 2021, 04:26 PM

half an hour ago:

M ELEY · 9th February 2021, 05:00 PM

You guys are killing me! We had only one day of snow here in the southern U.S. I am also hoping for some clarity on the Liege markings. I am still convinced that some of these pistols date to the period 1810 and later, per the original marking. We'll see...

Jim McDougall · 9th February 2021, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

half an hour ago:

Oh UDO!!!

fernando · 9th February 2021, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

half an hour ago:

Are there bears in your neighbourhood, Udo ?

.

Pukka Bundook · 10th February 2021, 05:46 AM

Naaa, they went south for warmer weather..

Norman McCormick · 10th February 2021, 05:39 PM

Hi Rick,
Any chance of dismounting the barrel on your pistol and photographing any marks in closeup plus of course the marks Fernando has already mentioned.
My Regards,
Norman.

corrado26 · 10th February 2021, 06:22 PM

and here is one with some marks

corrado26 · 10th February 2021, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Are there bears in your neighbourhood, Udo ?

.

No, just a joke!

rickystl · 10th February 2021, 03:57 PM

Interesting discussion on this pistol. Here is one that I own. The stock finish is almost completely worn off. Looks like someone was going to refinish it but never completed. But there is no evidence of later sanding. Also, it appears the lock and barrel were chemically cleaned sometime in the past.

I've always known this pistol by it's generic name of Belgium Navel Pistol, in use from about 1810 to 1835. I recall reading somewhere that this pistol was made by the thousands and sold everywhere. That Bannerman's early catalog had surplus still for sale probably attests to the quantity made.

Interesting the lack of a ramrod provision. My guess is that a separate loading rod suspended from a leather cord around the neck, was the thinking behind the pistol's design. But I may be wrong in that I've never seen what you might call a "European" type standardized loading rod for these pistols. Much like most of the pistols carried by troops in the Ottoman Empire. Combined with the use of pre-formed paper cartridges, re-loading is very quick. I can actually confirm this from a trial I did firing my pistol using this method. The separate rod around the neck is even more convenient than the later captured type ramrod.
On the other hand, as mentioned above, all of these pistols aboard a ship may have been loaded at the same time and then fired once during a ship-to-ship battle, and then used as a club or parrying piece.
The pistol is very robustly made. The front barrel wedge (versus a pin) is especially convenient. Just about every example I've seen is still, or can be easily returned to shooting condition today.

Rick

rickystl · 10th February 2021, 03:59 PM

Woops. Forgot the photos.....

fernando · 10th February 2021, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

...I've always known this pistol by it's generic name of Belgium Navel Pistol, in use from about 1810 to 1835. I recall reading somewhere that this pistol was made by the thousands and sold everywhere. That Bannerman's early catalog had surplus still for sale probably attests to the quantity made...

Still you find dozens of them for sale out there, with their Liege marks ... one a gift for Captain Mark; the barrel engraved HMS ACHERON

.

.

fernando · 10th February 2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

...I look forward to hearing of the information from the proof House...

Claude Gaier, Director of the Liege Arms Museum, is deceased since the last January 3th.
Here the BIOGRAPHY of a great arms specialist.

PS
I have now sen t e-mail to the present museum curator.

.

fernando · 11th February 2021, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

... I have now sen t e-mail to the present museum curator...

... And here is the (roughly translated) answer:

You are right, such correct information is not always easy to find, given the scope and complexity of the subject. It has been five months since i took office and i still 'often swim'. Having said that, i highly recommend a very reliable and well done site where you should find everything you need. They have also just published an encyclopedia in six volumes on the Liège armory that i have already ordered. This site is HERE.
Hoping that this site will meet your expectations, please receive, Mr. Viana, the expression of my warmest regards.

Löic Servais
Conservator

9th February 2021, 04:26 PM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,171	half an hour ago: Attached Images

10th February 2021, 06:22 PM	#9
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,171	and here is one with some marks Attached Images

10th February 2021, 03:59 PM	#12
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Woops. Forgot the photos..... Attached Images

9th February 2021, 02:31 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	"some of these marks had a different meaning depending on the dates they were used." You are absolutely correct my dear friend. I look forward to hearing of the information from the proof House. Stay warm and safe. Here it is minus 40C again! (This is the same temp, (minus 40, if degrees F too. Both feel cold.) :-) Up north it has been minus 72 degrees....

9th February 2021, 02:58 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,647	No reason to feel cold wih those sauna temperatures, Richard. The real thing is over here, with 13C (55F) . Stay safe, you too .

9th February 2021, 05:00 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	You guys are killing me! We had only one day of snow here in the southern U.S. I am also hoping for some clarity on the Liege markings. I am still convinced that some of these pistols date to the period 1810 and later, per the original marking. We'll see...

10th February 2021, 05:46 AM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Naaa, they went south for warmer weather..

10th February 2021, 05:39 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,577	Hi Rick, Any chance of dismounting the barrel on your pistol and photographing any marks in closeup plus of course the marks Fernando has already mentioned. My Regards, Norman.

10th February 2021, 03:57 PM	#11
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Interesting discussion on this pistol. Here is one that I own. The stock finish is almost completely worn off. Looks like someone was going to refinish it but never completed. But there is no evidence of later sanding. Also, it appears the lock and barrel were chemically cleaned sometime in the past. I've always known this pistol by it's generic name of Belgium Navel Pistol, in use from about 1810 to 1835. I recall reading somewhere that this pistol was made by the thousands and sold everywhere. That Bannerman's early catalog had surplus still for sale probably attests to the quantity made. Interesting the lack of a ramrod provision. My guess is that a separate loading rod suspended from a leather cord around the neck, was the thinking behind the pistol's design. But I may be wrong in that I've never seen what you might call a "European" type standardized loading rod for these pistols. Much like most of the pistols carried by troops in the Ottoman Empire. Combined with the use of pre-formed paper cartridges, re-loading is very quick. I can actually confirm this from a trial I did firing my pistol using this method. The separate rod around the neck is even more convenient than the later captured type ramrod. On the other hand, as mentioned above, all of these pistols aboard a ship may have been loaded at the same time and then fired once during a ship-to-ship battle, and then used as a club or parrying piece. The pistol is very robustly made. The front barrel wedge (versus a pin) is especially convenient. Just about every example I've seen is still, or can be easily returned to shooting condition today. Rick