Lance Head for coments

fernando · 26th May 2006, 07:54 PM

I have just ordered this Lance Head. Is the label "Indo Persian" consistent to its origin ? Would there be a more specific provenance ?
Blade 8" Socket 9". Its looks a bit old.
Any coments would be so much welcome.
fernando

Battara · 26th May 2006, 08:52 PM

I would place it as Qajar period, Persia.

fernando · 26th May 2006, 09:14 PM

Thank you so much, Battara.
Would you say 19th century?

Battara · 26th May 2006, 09:17 PM

Yes, that is when I believe the Qajar revival occured.

fernando · 26th May 2006, 11:39 PM

Thanks again

fernando · 7th June 2006, 07:47 PM

After Battara's observation, i did some web search under his appointed area and eventually found out the etching on the blade is an inscription in Farsi, entangled with a Snake.
I have just received it, and now i need further kind help.
Two vital questions remain unclear to me:
Would it be a Cavalry ( Persian Lancers ) or an Infantry pattern? It measures 45 cms. ( 18" ), blade and socket + - equivalent.
The other problem is i don't get to know the material of its inexistant haft, as i allways strugle to imagine an entire weapon's aspect. I have read that it could either be cane or wood, in the period context, but i can't judge for myself. I wonder if the type of socket is decisive for such conclusion. This one has a narrow entry ( 20 m/ms= 3/4" ) and a much pronounced tapering ... to 10 m/m= 5/16" at the end. This would require a spicky sharpened haft tip; maybe cane, at least hollow cane, would crack ... But above all and, for my layman's surprise, there isn't any hole in the socket for the haft fixation ! How come ? Were sometimes Spear hafts "glued" or "swallen" inside sockets ? would that be enough ?
Could any of the Forum Members give some lightning in these subjects?
Thanks a lot in advance.

ariel · 7th June 2006, 11:43 PM

I would guess that any fixation short of socketing would be too weak to allow this lance to be used for any hard contact purpose. Therefore... decorative?

Rick · 8th June 2006, 12:11 AM

I could agree with Ariel's assesment of this piece ; possibly not due to the reasons he has given but to this detail which strikes me as fairly lightweight for combat use .

Battara · 8th June 2006, 01:39 AM

I think that in the Qajar period there were many ceremonial and parade pieces used and certainly made. I would guess that this is one of them.

fernando · 8th June 2006, 07:28 PM

I am much obliged and fully enlightened with the sum of your three postings.
The blade is also too thin for impact, so i notice ... now.
I will file its identity as a parade lance head, late Qajar period ( Nasir ed-din ? ). In this case its haft, if there ever were one, would probably be a short type wood rod, as it should sufise for ceremonial evolutions, probably infantry.
Just a pitty i fancy more the collecting of older and efective weapons, although to my eyes i find this still an elegant and meaningfull blade. The socket is fully etched with micro arabesques, probably lettering familiar with the alegories to the Shah on the blade. The brass seaming is perfect and almost invisible. All in all, i like it.
Thank you again
fernando

26th May 2006, 07:54 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Lance Head for coments I have just ordered this Lance Head. Is the label "Indo Persian" consistent to its origin ? Would there be a more specific provenance ? Blade 8" Socket 9". Its looks a bit old. Any coments would be so much welcome. fernando Attached Images

8th June 2006, 12:11 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	I could agree with Ariel's assesment of this piece ; possibly not due to the reasons he has given but to this detail which strikes me as fairly lightweight for combat use . Attached Images

8th June 2006, 07:28 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	I am much obliged and fully enlightened with the sum of your three postings. The blade is also too thin for impact, so i notice ... now. I will file its identity as a parade lance head, late Qajar period ( Nasir ed-din ? ). In this case its haft, if there ever were one, would probably be a short type wood rod, as it should sufise for ceremonial evolutions, probably infantry. Just a pitty i fancy more the collecting of older and efective weapons, although to my eyes i find this still an elegant and meaningfull blade. The socket is fully etched with micro arabesques, probably lettering familiar with the alegories to the Shah on the blade. The brass seaming is perfect and almost invisible. All in all, i like it. Thank you again fernando Last edited by fernando; 8th June 2006 at 07:48 PM.

26th May 2006, 08:52 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I would place it as Qajar period, Persia.

26th May 2006, 09:14 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thank you so much, Battara. Would you say 19th century?

26th May 2006, 09:17 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Yes, that is when I believe the Qajar revival occured.

26th May 2006, 11:39 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thanks again

7th June 2006, 07:47 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	After Battara's observation, i did some web search under his appointed area and eventually found out the etching on the blade is an inscription in Farsi, entangled with a Snake. I have just received it, and now i need further kind help. Two vital questions remain unclear to me: Would it be a Cavalry ( Persian Lancers ) or an Infantry pattern? It measures 45 cms. ( 18" ), blade and socket + - equivalent. The other problem is i don't get to know the material of its inexistant haft, as i allways strugle to imagine an entire weapon's aspect. I have read that it could either be cane or wood, in the period context, but i can't judge for myself. I wonder if the type of socket is decisive for such conclusion. This one has a narrow entry ( 20 m/ms= 3/4" ) and a much pronounced tapering ... to 10 m/m= 5/16" at the end. This would require a spicky sharpened haft tip; maybe cane, at least hollow cane, would crack ... But above all and, for my layman's surprise, there isn't any hole in the socket for the haft fixation ! How come ? Were sometimes Spear hafts "glued" or "swallen" inside sockets ? would that be enough ? Could any of the Forum Members give some lightning in these subjects? Thanks a lot in advance.

7th June 2006, 11:43 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I would guess that any fixation short of socketing would be too weak to allow this lance to be used for any hard contact purpose. Therefore... decorative?

8th June 2006, 01:39 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I think that in the Qajar period there were many ceremonial and parade pieces used and certainly made. I would guess that this is one of them.