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Old 24th October 2008, 12:16 PM   #31
migueldiaz
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Quote:
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Hi Miguel,
Interesting kris the marine has ...

Hi Bill,

Thanks for those insights on that reported sword duel, among other thoughts you shared to us.

Thanks also for the link on Bobby Timonera's photos. I've heard too about that place (Tugaya) where there's a lot of craftsmen doing the tourist pieces. I should definitely check that out one of these days ... with the objective of stumbling into a real antique piece in one of the shops there.
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Old 24th October 2008, 01:00 PM   #32
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My long-time interest has really been on the history of WW2, and the European theater in particular.

Visiting the West Point Museum (New York) one day [in 2007], I got amazed at the impact the Moros had made on the US military, as evidenced by the artifacts displayed there.

That fanned my interest in Philippine weapons, and the Moro blades in particular. Below are the pics I took at said museum.

On the other pics of the blades of the Assyrian, Persian, etc., I'll just start another thread on that.
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Old 25th October 2008, 02:44 AM   #33
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wow! that hand cannon is interesting.. so we had such a weapon back in the 15th century = 1400's?
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Old 26th October 2008, 11:00 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apolaki
wow! that hand cannon is interesting.. so we had such a weapon back in the 15th century = 1400's?

Apolaki, that's possible I think.

And that's because the ancient Filipinos were in contact with the Chinese, long before the Spaniards and other Europeans came (in the mid-1500's).

And we all know that gunpowder originated in China.

So yes, we should feel proud that our grandfathers did not confine themselves to blade weapons! Remember also that the Filipino blacksmith Panday Pira (1483-1576) was an established cannon maker in Manila, again long before the Europeans came.
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Old 26th October 2008, 11:06 AM   #35
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First of all, thanks again to all who have supported my new addiction, I mean addition , to my humble collection

Can I ask a follow up question, please?

Is the number of waves in an authentic kris supposedly odd and not even, or perhaps that is not necessarily the case?

Because in Herbert Krieger's (1926) description of krisses found in the now-Smithsonian Institute, per Krieger's textual description of five krisses, in fact three out of five have even-numbered waves.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 26th October 2008, 03:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by migueldiaz
Is the number of waves in an authentic kris supposedly odd and not even, or perhaps that is not necessarily the case?

Because in Herbert Krieger's (1926) description of krisses found in the now-Smithsonian Institute, per Krieger's textual description of five krisses, in fact three out of five have even-numbered waves.

Krieger probably did not count correctly or did not take into account blade erosion that would make the kris appear to have one less wave.
As far as i know kris and keris always have an odd wave count.
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Old 27th October 2008, 05:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Krieger probably did not count correctly or did not take into account blade erosion that would make the kris appear to have one less wave.
As far as i know kris and keris always have an odd wave count.

Hi David,

Thanks for the comment.

In the attached pic of one of Krieger's plates, krisses nos. 1 & 3 seem to have even-numbered wave counts. Or would there be another way of counting the waves?

Thanks again.
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Old 27th October 2008, 08:04 PM   #38
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#1. is 5 waves .

#3. is 13 waves .

Count from the greneng/wide side of the blade .
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Old 27th October 2008, 08:09 PM   #39
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I concur, 5 on #1, 13 on #3.
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Old 27th October 2008, 08:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Count from the greneng/wide side of the blade .

Actually Rick, don't you mean to say that you should start your count from the other side, from the first curve just above the "elephant trunk"?
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Old 28th October 2008, 04:52 AM   #41
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Now I get it.

Thanks Rick and David!
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Old 28th October 2008, 02:24 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Actually Rick, don't you mean to say that you should start your count from the other side, from the first curve just above the "elephant trunk"?


It's funny how we can both come up with the same # using different ways to count .

I tend to do things backwards ....
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Old 29th October 2008, 08:40 AM   #43
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[... momentarily pondering whether there is more to life than counting the number of waves of certain edged weapons ...]

Going back to Krieger's manner of counting the waves, apparently he counts the pairs of waves, and not the individual waves.

Thus in the attached photo in his book, in the text he described certain blades as follows:

[1] Blade No. 1: two waves;
[2] Blade No. 5: five waves; and
[3] Blade No. 7: eleven waves.

I'm not saying Krieger's manner of counting should be it. I'm just pointing out the way he did it
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Old 29th October 2008, 02:57 PM   #44
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At any rate (unless modified after the fact) both the kris and the keris traditionally have odd numbers of curves .
I think we can take that as a given .
It's a Guy thing ........

Blade # 1 = 5 waves
Blade #5 = 9 waves ...
Blade #7 - the picture is way poor for counting; there are more waves than has been stated; I count 21 .

Last edited by Rick : 29th October 2008 at 03:08 PM.
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