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Old 2nd May 2018, 08:27 PM   #1
David
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Default Figurative Hilt ID

I acquired this hilt on an old Javanese keris really early in my keris collecting "career". It shows some age, but i have always assumed it was at least post WWII and possibly from sometime around the 1960-70. Iy has a nice color and patina. While no great work of figurative art i have always thought it had a certain charm (a bit like Art Na´ve). I have wondered if it might be of Madurese origin, but i have never been sure. It seems like it might be Ganesha, but maybe not. You know how it is with later figurative hilts. It's intentions are not clear IMO. I did once see another hilt of the same exact design which very possibly may have come from the same carver for sale online some time ago, but i never downloaded the images and can't remember the site.
So what i'd like to know where folks think this originated? Do you think it is bone or antler? I kind of lean towards bone (note that the head has a plugged piece inserted). What type/origin of keris would this hilt be appropriate for? All comments appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 2nd May 2018, 09:36 PM   #2
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Hi David, not much to contribute but I think your call that this is Lord Ganesha is probably correct, both hands are holding something, ? the left hand a conch, no idea what is in the other hand
cheers
Drd
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Old 2nd May 2018, 11:08 PM   #3
A. G. Maisey
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No, this is not Ganesha, it is most probably intended as a representation of Jentayu (Jatayu).
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Old 3rd May 2018, 02:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
No, this is not Ganesha, it is most probably intended as a representation of Jentayu (Jatayu).

I always thought the long face looked more beak than trunk.
Any thoughts on origins Alan, or what, if any, dress this hilt would best serve?
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Old 3rd May 2018, 03:05 AM   #5
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I have to wonder if it would actually be used within the culture it originates from.
Would it not be considered as a bit over the top?
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Old 3rd May 2018, 03:38 AM   #6
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I don't know Rick. I don't think anyone has actually determines what culture it originates from so i don't know how to answer your question. If indeed it represents a Hindu concept than could it have originated in one of the Balinese enclaves in Madura? If it is a Hindu representation it doesn't seem over the top to me at all.
No one has commented on the material yet. What do you think, bone or antler?
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Old 3rd May 2018, 04:53 AM   #7
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I'll guess bone David. At the bottom of the handle is a ring which I think covers the marrow area.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 05:15 AM   #8
A. G. Maisey
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Looks like bone to me.

My guess is Madura, Sumenep work, and 1980's --- but if you say you got it previous to this David, well, just take it back to where you think reasonable.

It would perhaps sit best on something East Jawa/North Coast/Madura.

Yes, certainly Jentayu is Hindu, but the East Jawa/Madura carvers draw on all societies, cultures, periods for inspiration.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 09:24 AM   #9
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For me, it's interesting to see the engraved "cracks", which imitate older ivory.
A good lesson.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 01:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Looks like bone to me.

My guess is Madura, Sumenep work, and 1980's --- but if you say you got it previous to this David, well, just take it back to where you think reasonable.

It would perhaps sit best on something East Jawa/North Coast/Madura.

Yes, certainly Jentayu is Hindu, but the East Jawa/Madura carvers draw on all societies, cultures, periods for inspiration.

Thanks Alan. No, i didn't acquire this until sometime around 2000. I had jus assumed it was from the 60s or 70s based upon the color and patina, but both those things can be faked to a certain extent, so your 80s attribution might well be correct.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 02:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
For me, it's interesting to see the engraved "cracks", which imitate older ivory.
A good lesson.


Yes it would from about ten feet away, or to the novice collector.

As Gilbert and Sullivan wrote in Trial By Jury:

"She may very well pass for forty-three
In the dusk, with a light behind her."
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Old 3rd May 2018, 02:46 PM   #12
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Exactly - imagine you are in a dark shop room, and it's covered with "patina"...
And you don't see the Pesi hole, because it's fitted with a Keris.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 04:30 PM   #13
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It has a certain charm though.
I wish I could carve that well.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 05:38 PM   #14
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Hello David,

nice hilt also when not antique. Another vote for bone and Jentayu. And I also think that it is from Madura.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 3rd May 2018, 06:23 PM   #15
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Thanks gents. For now it sits as a separate piece of keris art. I took it off the keris it originally came on some time ago since it didn't seem a good match. But one day it may find a suitable blade to reside upon.
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