sikh battle helmet

redeye · 28th March 2011, 06:31 PM

HI all

Thisis my first post and i was wondering if some of the experts could shine some light on this piece as to the time period and origin, any help would be greatley appreciated

Thanks

[IMG]http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?
attachmentid=69537&stc=1[/IMG]

A Senefelder · 28th March 2011, 10:29 PM

This is a very nice example of a somewhat rare form, the more traditional spiked top khula khud being far more common. The riveted rather than butted mail aventail indicated this is a fighting helmet. Butted maille becomes increasingly common in the 18th century and is somewhat the norm in the 19th century. While this could be a very fine 19th century example, the riveted maille would have me leaning a little more twords 18th or possibly earlier. My exposure to Indo-Persian arms and armour is predominantly 18-19th century so this is just my fuzzy guess. Someone with a bit more background will hopefully chime in and really fill in the story on this piece.

Atlantia · 28th March 2011, 10:35 PM

Hi Redeye,

Nice Sikh style helmet. Butted chainmail and simple carved decoration. Made recently, but still a good thing!

Best
Gene

P.S. Welcome to the forums!

P.P.S. should really be in the Ethno forum

A Senefelder · 28th March 2011, 10:55 PM

I stand corrected, in my intial look at the pics I thought I spied rivets, but Atlantias comment made me look again and he is absolutely correct the rings are butted. That would put the helmet in the later 19th century perhaps. Thast what I get for not wearing my glasses.

Atlantia · 28th March 2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

I stand corrected, in my intial look at the pics I thought I spied rivets, but Atlantias comment made me look again and he is absolutely correct the rings are butted. That would put the helmet in the later 19th century perhaps. Thast what I get for not wearing my glasses.

Sorry mate, early 21st century IMHO.

A Senefelder · 29th March 2011, 01:44 AM

Interesting, most of the new market Indian reproduction armour i've seen around is suffering from the same thing that much newly made European armour is, its to perfect, to symetrical, to even and lacks most of the handmade hallmarks of the originals ( in fact the standards of fine period armour would be returned as unacceptible if incorperated into newly made reproductions, in our mass produced world the hand made quality of original harness with all its asymetries ect. is unacceptible for the modern consumer ). Theres a fair amount of asymetry and uneveness to the decorative motif. Perhaps they're discovering thier mistake.

Atlantia · 29th March 2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

Interesting, most of the new market Indian reproduction armour i've seen around is suffering from the same thing that much newly made European armour is, its to perfect, to symetrical, to even and lacks most of the handmade hallmarks of the originals ( in fact the standards of fine period armour would be returned as unacceptible if incorperated into newly made reproductions, in our mass produced world the hand made quality of original harness with all its asymetries ect. is unacceptible for the modern consumer ). Theres a fair amount of asymetry and uneveness to the decorative motif. Perhaps they're discovering thier mistake.

I think you've hit upon something there. It's recently (last 18 months) that I've seen this type of simple chiseled steel decoration replacing the intricate koftgari that had become so...... 'familiar'.

Redeye,
Can you post pictures of the inside of the helmet please?

A Senefelder · 29th March 2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

replacing the intricate koftgari that had become so...... 'familiar'.

I've seen a bunch of that and even reworked a few pieces for folks in the last few years ( these owners were aware it was newely made ).

redeye · 2nd August 2011, 01:09 PM

HI
the inside has been re-trimmed recently, Thanks for all the info

redeye · 2nd August 2011, 01:16 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/images/attach/jpg.gif

The inside was redone recently i was told ,

redeye · 2nd August 2011, 01:17 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...id=74696&stc=1

28th March 2011, 06:31 PM	#1
redeye Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	sikh battle helmet HI all Thisis my first post and i was wondering if some of the experts could shine some light on this piece as to the time period and origin, any help would be greatley appreciated Thanks [IMG]http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php? attachmentid=69537&stc=1[/IMG] Attached Images

2nd August 2011, 01:09 PM	#9
redeye Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	HI the inside has been re-trimmed recently, Thanks for all the info Attached Images

2nd August 2011, 01:16 PM	#10
redeye Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/images/attach/jpg.gif The inside was redone recently i was told , Attached Images

2nd August 2011, 01:17 PM	#11
redeye Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	sikh helmet http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...id=74696&stc=1 Attached Images

28th March 2011, 10:29 PM	#2
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	This is a very nice example of a somewhat rare form, the more traditional spiked top khula khud being far more common. The riveted rather than butted mail aventail indicated this is a fighting helmet. Butted maille becomes increasingly common in the 18th century and is somewhat the norm in the 19th century. While this could be a very fine 19th century example, the riveted maille would have me leaning a little more twords 18th or possibly earlier. My exposure to Indo-Persian arms and armour is predominantly 18-19th century so this is just my fuzzy guess. Someone with a bit more background will hopefully chime in and really fill in the story on this piece.

28th March 2011, 10:35 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Redeye, Nice Sikh style helmet. Butted chainmail and simple carved decoration. Made recently, but still a good thing! Best Gene P.S. Welcome to the forums! P.P.S. should really be in the Ethno forum

28th March 2011, 10:55 PM	#4
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	I stand corrected, in my intial look at the pics I thought I spied rivets, but Atlantias comment made me look again and he is absolutely correct the rings are butted. That would put the helmet in the later 19th century perhaps. Thast what I get for not wearing my glasses.

29th March 2011, 01:44 AM	#6
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	Interesting, most of the new market Indian reproduction armour i've seen around is suffering from the same thing that much newly made European armour is, its to perfect, to symetrical, to even and lacks most of the handmade hallmarks of the originals ( in fact the standards of fine period armour would be returned as unacceptible if incorperated into newly made reproductions, in our mass produced world the hand made quality of original harness with all its asymetries ect. is unacceptible for the modern consumer ). Theres a fair amount of asymetry and uneveness to the decorative motif. Perhaps they're discovering thier mistake.