Warning: more "rare" swords from china on ebay

FenrisWolf · 28th January 2007, 06:50 AM

I'm sure most of us are aware by now of the flood of 'rare' swords pouring into the collector's market from China via ebay. Well, there's two new ones surfacing. I've seen half a dozen listings for ' ultra rare' FRENCH cavalry sabers in iron scabbards, straight from the Bastille by way of Beijing.

Yeah, right.

I also spotted a

700 year old bronze Sword from Angkor

for sale out of Thailand, for the bargain starting price of only 99 cents!

Be still my beating heart.

Sorry to sound so cranky, but I just spent an hour coming up with the right combination of exclusions to shave the 1200 listings under 'asian antiques' for 'sword' down to a manageable 100 and over half of those are junk as well. Gods-rotted con artists..... Odin's curse on the lot of them.... grumble grumble grumble......

Bill M · 28th January 2007, 10:52 AM

It is frustrating. Ebay continues to make noises about censuring some of the sellers who offer items at very low prices and have huge, outrageous shipping fees.

This hits eBay in the pocketbook since eBay only gets a percentage of the auction fee and not the shipping charges.

Best I can tell, making fakes has been an occupation for several thousand years. I got on a real vendetta a few years back trying to call attention to these sellers. A few in particular.

I had a friend who created an eBay identity called "I-Bid-On-Fakes" and he would try to use this as a way of warning people.

When I first began collecting, I bought some of those rare, Ming dynasty, swords. I gave negative feedback and was called a "marplot." (An officious meddler whose interference compromises the success of an undertaking.) Had to look that one up in a dictionary!

I have gotten to be less of a vigilante in my older days. Just venting this morning.

FenrisWolf · 28th January 2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

When I first began collecting, I bought some of those rare, Ming dynasty, swords. I gave negative feedback and was called a "marplot." (An officious meddler whose interference compromises the success of an undertaking.) Had to look that one up in a dictionary!

I have gotten to be less of a vigilante in my older days. Just venting this morning.

Time to sic Jay and Silent Bob on them. I still remember laughing hysterically as they used their loot from the movie to track down all the little trolls who'd been badmouthing them on line just so they could beat the **** out of them....

It's a pain to fight through all the dreck in the auctions, but then again, it is sort of like panning for gold. If you have the patience to sift through all the junk, every once in a while you unearth a gem no one else has noticed....

Emanuel · 28th January 2007, 02:33 PM

Haha I hear you guys! Problem is eBay only allows a limited number of characters and exclusions, you can't cover everything!! And now they've gotten crafty and start listing as "samuri" instead of samurai and so on. I wish ebay would let us exclude by countries...bye-bye China!

I just saw a documentary on a new eBay problem, people blackmailing 100% positive feedback sellers/buyers into leaving positive feedbacks when negative is deserved. It's getting to be a mean place...

Andrew · 28th January 2007, 02:41 PM

I seldom shop eBay for edged weapons these days. Every so often, I'll cruise through my saved searches just to see what's going on.

FenrisWolf · 28th January 2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

I seldom shop eBay for edged weapons these days. Every so often, I'll cruise through my saved searches just to see what's going on.

It all depends on how much time you have to spend, and/or how much cash. There are some nice pieces showing up, especially in the hands of a few reputable dealers, but most of those dealers have a devoted customer base and you usually end up paying market price (or even above) for the really nice items. However, if you have unlimited time with which to go prospecting, you can occasionally snap up a bargain due to a seller just not knowing how to describe and/or photograph a piece.

For example, that little bichaq I listed with the inscriptions was so poorly photographed you couldn't see any details of the blade, and could barely make out the shape of the hilt. I recognized the characteristic outline of the hilt and was the only bidder on the piece. I've picked up a few others that way, but they're few and far between.

And forget about finding any bargains on japanese swords! Too many collectors with deep pockets bidding up anything decent, and too much modern junk and chinese forgeries to sift through. The latest thing? Katanas with "genuine" DAMASCUS blades!?!

Excuse me?

I also spotted one such feather merchant 'salting' his listings; he had one genuine wakizashi mixed in with all the fakes. Oddly enough, for some reason it was the only blade in his entire listing that had a reserve, and from the way the bidding went one set so high no one was going to actually buy the thing.....

Rick · 28th January 2007, 03:23 PM

For people looking for good antique weapons at reasonable prices Ebay is no longer the place.

The only time I spend on ebay these days is looking for my Mother's stolen jewelry; and the occasional search for an ivory keris handle located in the States.

Bill M · 28th January 2007, 04:39 PM

Hi Fenris,

There is a fable about a man with two sons. One an optimist and one a pessimist.

For Christmas he gave the pessimist son a room full of toys and for the optimist son a room full of excrement.

He looked in later and the pessimist was sitting in the middle of the room of toys, not playing with anything. The father asked him what was the problem, why was he not enjoying the toys? The son told him that he felt as soon as he played with something it would break and he would feel worse.

The optimist son in the room full of excrement was having a great time. Digging and looking. The father asked him what he was doing. He replied that with this much excrement, there HAD to be a pony in there somewhere.

So we look for the "pony" on eBay.

And there are some. But we also need a little common sense. If a seller is offering a "rare exquisite, Ming Dynasty, general's or emperor’s sword" for 99 cents, does that make sense?

Sadly many of the people I tried to warn about the unethical dealers on eBay were relatively happy with their purchase. They bought one carefully rusted "Ming Dynasty" sword. They cleaned the rust away and put it over their mantle. They showed it to their friends. End of story.

Obviously, we as collectors are looking for better.

On this Forum we have fantastic resources in terms of the relationships we can develop with other members.

Relationships that can help us find the "pony." That can help us understand and identify pieces we have. That can help us in areas we are weak. So that we don't buy that bad piece. People who we can visit when we travel and have friends in distant cities and countries. And we can do the same for, and with them.

I cannot tell you folks how many times I have avoided a bad buy by asking someone who knows the type of piece if it is a good one or not. Right now, in fact, I have just sent emails to several people about something I am trying to decide to buy asking their opinion. Sure, I have an idea, but they can tell me if the repairs are authentic.

They know the area and I trust their judgment. Could they be wrong? Sure. Unless you can hold the piece in your hands it is hard to make an evaluation. But even so they will have a better understanding of this piece than I do.

My point is that I feel I am more likely to be wrong about this piece than they since they have studied this area. My big secret about acquiring good pieces is my network. Do I know some areas? Sure. Do I know everything? Oh come on of course not!

But I do know people to ask and I see huge value in collecting this way.

Emanuel · 28th January 2007, 04:45 PM

In the fight against unscrupulous and bad ebayers, I'd like to call to everyone's attention this particular tool: www.toolhaus.org it filters out the positive feebacks allowing you to see all the bad and the neutral, as well as mutually withdrawn. I think it provides another useful layer of info about potential bad sellers.

I agree with Bill about commong sense. Often I ask myself, shouldn't this be in a museum? and if so, why is this guy selling it cheap when any dealer or museum would pay handsomely for it. And of course, look at how many of them are being sold. If I see 10 "rare, unique...whatnot" I keep some cheerful suspicion.

Emanuel

Tim Simmons · 28th January 2007, 06:04 PM

Descriptive horse and cart will only lead to pony and trap.

Bill M · 28th January 2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Descriptive horse and cart will only lead to pony and trap.

Chinese fortune cookie?

Tim Simmons · 28th January 2007, 06:53 PM

Bill that is even more funny

. Old Cockney rhyming slang. Perhaps a whiff of horse.

28th January 2007, 06:50 AM	#1
FenrisWolf Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 181	Warning: more "rare" swords from china on ebay I'm sure most of us are aware by now of the flood of 'rare' swords pouring into the collector's market from China via ebay. Well, there's two new ones surfacing. I've seen half a dozen listings for ' ultra rare' FRENCH cavalry sabers in iron scabbards, straight from the Bastille by way of Beijing. Yeah, right. I also spotted a 700 year old bronze Sword from Angkor for sale out of Thailand, for the bargain starting price of only 99 cents! Be still my beating heart. Sorry to sound so cranky, but I just spent an hour coming up with the right combination of exclusions to shave the 1200 listings under 'asian antiques' for 'sword' down to a manageable 100 and over half of those are junk as well. Gods-rotted con artists..... Odin's curse on the lot of them.... grumble grumble grumble......

28th January 2007, 03:23 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Paradise Lost For people looking for good antique weapons at reasonable prices Ebay is no longer the place. The only time I spend on ebay these days is looking for my Mother's stolen jewelry; and the occasional search for an ivory keris handle located in the States.

28th January 2007, 04:45 PM	#9
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	A useful tool In the fight against unscrupulous and bad ebayers, I'd like to call to everyone's attention this particular tool: www.toolhaus.org it filters out the positive feebacks allowing you to see all the bad and the neutral, as well as mutually withdrawn. I think it provides another useful layer of info about potential bad sellers. I agree with Bill about commong sense. Often I ask myself, shouldn't this be in a museum? and if so, why is this guy selling it cheap when any dealer or museum would pay handsomely for it. And of course, look at how many of them are being sold. If I see 10 "rare, unique...whatnot" I keep some cheerful suspicion. Emanuel

28th January 2007, 10:52 AM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	It is frustrating. Ebay continues to make noises about censuring some of the sellers who offer items at very low prices and have huge, outrageous shipping fees. This hits eBay in the pocketbook since eBay only gets a percentage of the auction fee and not the shipping charges. Best I can tell, making fakes has been an occupation for several thousand years. I got on a real vendetta a few years back trying to call attention to these sellers. A few in particular. I had a friend who created an eBay identity called "I-Bid-On-Fakes" and he would try to use this as a way of warning people. When I first began collecting, I bought some of those rare, Ming dynasty, swords. I gave negative feedback and was called a "marplot." (An officious meddler whose interference compromises the success of an undertaking.) Had to look that one up in a dictionary! I have gotten to be less of a vigilante in my older days. Just venting this morning.

28th January 2007, 02:33 PM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Haha I hear you guys! Problem is eBay only allows a limited number of characters and exclusions, you can't cover everything!! And now they've gotten crafty and start listing as "samuri" instead of samurai and so on. I wish ebay would let us exclude by countries...bye-bye China! I just saw a documentary on a new eBay problem, people blackmailing 100% positive feedback sellers/buyers into leaving positive feedbacks when negative is deserved. It's getting to be a mean place...

28th January 2007, 02:41 PM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I seldom shop eBay for edged weapons these days. Every so often, I'll cruise through my saved searches just to see what's going on.

28th January 2007, 04:39 PM	#8
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Hi Fenris, There is a fable about a man with two sons. One an optimist and one a pessimist. For Christmas he gave the pessimist son a room full of toys and for the optimist son a room full of excrement. He looked in later and the pessimist was sitting in the middle of the room of toys, not playing with anything. The father asked him what was the problem, why was he not enjoying the toys? The son told him that he felt as soon as he played with something it would break and he would feel worse. The optimist son in the room full of excrement was having a great time. Digging and looking. The father asked him what he was doing. He replied that with this much excrement, there HAD to be a pony in there somewhere. So we look for the "pony" on eBay. And there are some. But we also need a little common sense. If a seller is offering a "rare exquisite, Ming Dynasty, general's or emperor’s sword" for 99 cents, does that make sense? Sadly many of the people I tried to warn about the unethical dealers on eBay were relatively happy with their purchase. They bought one carefully rusted "Ming Dynasty" sword. They cleaned the rust away and put it over their mantle. They showed it to their friends. End of story. Obviously, we as collectors are looking for better. On this Forum we have fantastic resources in terms of the relationships we can develop with other members. Relationships that can help us find the "pony." That can help us understand and identify pieces we have. That can help us in areas we are weak. So that we don't buy that bad piece. People who we can visit when we travel and have friends in distant cities and countries. And we can do the same for, and with them. I cannot tell you folks how many times I have avoided a bad buy by asking someone who knows the type of piece if it is a good one or not. Right now, in fact, I have just sent emails to several people about something I am trying to decide to buy asking their opinion. Sure, I have an idea, but they can tell me if the repairs are authentic. They know the area and I trust their judgment. Could they be wrong? Sure. Unless you can hold the piece in your hands it is hard to make an evaluation. But even so they will have a better understanding of this piece than I do. My point is that I feel I am more likely to be wrong about this piece than they since they have studied this area. My big secret about acquiring good pieces is my network. Do I know some areas? Sure. Do I know everything? Oh come on of course not! But I do know people to ask and I see huge value in collecting this way.

28th January 2007, 06:04 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Descriptive horse and cart will only lead to pony and trap.

28th January 2007, 06:53 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Bill that is even more funny . Old Cockney rhyming slang. Perhaps a whiff of horse.