Remains of collection of antique/ancient axes for ID.

Atlantia · 17th March 2011, 12:06 AM

About 20ish years ago I bought a collection of very antique English/European axes.
At the time I rehafted a couple (long gone now) but there is a limit to the amount of axes I can stomach having on the wall, the rest of them ended up stored away.
Anyhow, I've dug them out and would appreciate any thoughts on their origins. They ranged in date back to late medieval at the least (possibly earlier).
I'm unsure what I'll do with them, but of course IDing them is a first step.

#1: I've always thought is was some kind of battle axe (but I could of course be wrong!)

Weight is around 1300g. Dimensions as shown.

#2: This next one was labelled as medieval battle axe.
Dimensions as shown, weight around 800g.
Thoughts?

Atlantia · 17th March 2011, 12:08 AM

#3: Unknown type (probobly agricultural). Interesting initials 'H.P' on both sides.
Large size as shown, weight around 2.3kg

#4 Again an unknown type (probobly agricultural), in excavated condition.
Some deep pitting and loss of surface, dimensions as shown, weight just under 1400g.

Atlantia · 17th March 2011, 12:08 AM

#5: I think this is the last one (unless I find any more in the shed!)
Another unknown type (probobly agricultural).
Sizes as shown, weight 2150g

Matchlock · 18th March 2011, 04:45 PM

Hi Gene,

Though this is not my field of expertise I remember seeing axe blades like your #4 dated as early the 8th/9th c. (Continental Carolingian type).

Btw, I just noticed our number of posts was even as of today.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 18th March 2011, 06:30 PM

Nos. 1-3 I would tentatively attribute to the 17th c., no. 5 is in my opinion not far away in time from no. 4.

Just rough estimations though

- where are the experts? Broadaxe, wouldn't you like to join in?

Best,
Michael

Atlantia · 18th March 2011, 09:54 PM

Thank you Michael.
I was beginning to think that nobody was interested in these rusty old things

Matchlock · 18th March 2011, 10:14 PM

Oh, I too used to have such special items about 20 years ago, so a bit of dating memory seems to have survived.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 18th March 2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Thank you Michael.
I was beginning to think that nobody was interested in these rusty old things

Are the two of us the only ones to feel a certain lethargy here?

Best though worrying,
Michael

Rick · 18th March 2011, 11:28 PM

It will be slow this weekend .
Everyone is at the arms show and seminar .

Atlantia · 18th March 2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Are the two of us the only ones to feel a certain lethargy here?

Best though worrying,
Michael

Ahh, Rick's solved the mystery

We aren't being ignored

Matchlock · 19th March 2011, 01:03 AM

I realize that.

So will I, bidding on behalf of a friend as well!

m

Atlantia · 20th March 2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I realize that.

So will I, bidding on behalf of a friend as well!

m

Ahhh, good luck

Matchlock · 20th March 2011, 07:34 PM

Thanks, Gene,

Actually I was not there in person so I still do not know whether we won our two fine swords. You and all otheres here will receive a documentation soon though.

Best,
Michael

Atlantia · 21st March 2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Thanks, Gene,

Actually I was not there in person so I still do not know whether we won our two fine swords. You and all otheres here will receive a documentation soon though.

Best,
Michael

Look forward to it Michael

Still no thoughts from others on the axes>?

M ELEY · 22nd March 2011, 05:30 AM

I think another reason folks are shying away is that many of these axe-forms lasted for centuries without much change. Still, this is an awesome collection, Gene.
No expert by any means, but here is my stab at it-
1st appears 17th-18th century, classic colonial type as seen in Neumann's and Hartsler's tomahawk/Amer trade axe book.

2nd perhaps slightly earlier pattern of 16th going into 17th based on the bearding/flare at bottom of edge

3rd a type seen as Michael pointed out -17th through 18th c.

4th- Not too familiar with this one, appears very early, so Michael pegged it

5th- as similar to above

6th- not so sure, but this type also goes back a long ways, so anywhere from midaevel to 17th century is a guess.

These axe types were used as both weapons and tools interchangibly. You will note their differences from the typical broadaxes and hewing axes of the period. The first 3 types made it to America and were popular trading axes between the fur traders and Native Americans (thus, used as weapon-tools), a subject fascinating by itself. Again, a very nice collection!

Atlantia · 22nd March 2011, 03:19 PM

Thanks for the input.
These are certainly sounding interesting now

Atlantia · 23rd March 2011, 06:08 PM

Nobody got anything to add?
The Axe specialists?

Atlantia · 25th March 2011, 08:29 PM

Bump

Jeff Pringle · 6th April 2011, 03:53 PM

ut-oh, the photos went away!

I was going to say "Das Werkzeug des Zimmermans" by Schadwinkel has some great descriptions & photos of german axes from the 15th - 20th century, I can scan in relevant pages if you like

Rick · 6th April 2011, 04:11 PM

C'mon Gene, upload those missing piccys ..

Of what use is this thread without them ?

Rick

Atlantia · 6th April 2011, 05:16 PM

Sorry guys.

I thought that nobody had anything to add and as none seem to be proper weapons.... I got a bit despondent and decided to just get rid of them!
Thought the discussion was dead so deleted the pics so as to not get in trouble!

Rick · 6th April 2011, 10:27 PM

Gene, Gene, what 'trouble' .

We love pictures here .

I'll pester you no more ...

fernando · 6th April 2011, 11:21 PM

C'mon Gene, you know better than that

Just look back to this thread; what a disaster

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Sorry guys.

I thought that nobody had anything to add and as none seem to be proper weapons.... I got a bit despondent and decided to just get rid of them!
Thought the discussion was dead so deleted the pics so as to not get in trouble!

HUH? Old threads never die, they just slip off into the basement

Then every now and then somebody comes up with new stuff and revives them! Look at the ones that have just come up.
Besides, you always post interesting stuff, sometimes unusual and it takes a while to find info on it.

All the best,
Jim

17th March 2011, 12:06 AM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Remains of collection of antique/ancient axes for ID. About 20ish years ago I bought a collection of very antique English/European axes. At the time I rehafted a couple (long gone now) but there is a limit to the amount of axes I can stomach having on the wall, the rest of them ended up stored away. Anyhow, I've dug them out and would appreciate any thoughts on their origins. They ranged in date back to late medieval at the least (possibly earlier). I'm unsure what I'll do with them, but of course IDing them is a first step. #1: I've always thought is was some kind of battle axe (but I could of course be wrong!) Weight is around 1300g. Dimensions as shown. #2: This next one was labelled as medieval battle axe. Dimensions as shown, weight around 800g. Thoughts?

17th March 2011, 12:08 AM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	#3: Unknown type (probobly agricultural). Interesting initials 'H.P' on both sides. Large size as shown, weight around 2.3kg #4 Again an unknown type (probobly agricultural), in excavated condition. Some deep pitting and loss of surface, dimensions as shown, weight just under 1400g. Last edited by Atlantia; 17th March 2011 at 09:12 AM.

18th March 2011, 04:45 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Gene, Though this is not my field of expertise I remember seeing axe blades like your #4 dated as early the 8th/9th c. (Continental Carolingian type). Btw, I just noticed our number of posts was even as of today. Best, Michael

18th March 2011, 06:30 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Nos. 1-3 I would tentatively attribute to the 17th c., no. 5 is in my opinion not far away in time from no. 4. Just rough estimations though - where are the experts? Broadaxe, wouldn't you like to join in? Best, Michael

18th March 2011, 09:54 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Thank you Michael. I was beginning to think that nobody was interested in these rusty old things

18th March 2011, 10:14 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Oh, I too used to have such special items about 20 years ago, so a bit of dating memory seems to have survived. Best, Michael

18th March 2011, 11:28 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	It will be slow this weekend . Everyone is at the arms show and seminar .

19th March 2011, 01:03 AM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I realize that. So will I, bidding on behalf of a friend as well! m

20th March 2011, 07:34 PM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thanks, Gene, Actually I was not there in person so I still do not know whether we won our two fine swords. You and all otheres here will receive a documentation soon though. Best, Michael

22nd March 2011, 05:30 AM	#15
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	I think another reason folks are shying away is that many of these axe-forms lasted for centuries without much change. Still, this is an awesome collection, Gene. No expert by any means, but here is my stab at it- 1st appears 17th-18th century, classic colonial type as seen in Neumann's and Hartsler's tomahawk/Amer trade axe book. 2nd perhaps slightly earlier pattern of 16th going into 17th based on the bearding/flare at bottom of edge 3rd a type seen as Michael pointed out -17th through 18th c. 4th- Not too familiar with this one, appears very early, so Michael pegged it 5th- as similar to above 6th- not so sure, but this type also goes back a long ways, so anywhere from midaevel to 17th century is a guess. These axe types were used as both weapons and tools interchangibly. You will note their differences from the typical broadaxes and hewing axes of the period. The first 3 types made it to America and were popular trading axes between the fur traders and Native Americans (thus, used as weapon-tools), a subject fascinating by itself. Again, a very nice collection!

22nd March 2011, 03:19 PM	#16
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Thanks for the input. These are certainly sounding interesting now

23rd March 2011, 06:08 PM	#17
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Nobody got anything to add? The Axe specialists?

25th March 2011, 08:29 PM	#18
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Bump

6th April 2011, 03:53 PM	#19
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	ut-oh, the photos went away! I was going to say "Das Werkzeug des Zimmermans" by Schadwinkel has some great descriptions & photos of german axes from the 15th - 20th century, I can scan in relevant pages if you like

6th April 2011, 04:11 PM	#20
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	C'mon Gene, upload those missing piccys .. Of what use is this thread without them ? Rick

6th April 2011, 05:16 PM	#21
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Sorry guys. I thought that nobody had anything to add and as none seem to be proper weapons.... I got a bit despondent and decided to just get rid of them! Thought the discussion was dead so deleted the pics so as to not get in trouble!

6th April 2011, 10:27 PM	#22
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Gene, Gene, what 'trouble' . We love pictures here . I'll pester you no more ...

6th April 2011, 11:21 PM	#23
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	C'mon Gene, you know better than that Just look back to this thread; what a disaster