Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 8th November 2006, 05:04 PM   #1
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,635
Default Rare Dayak Daggers - Sadop and Dohong

I can't find that these Dayak daggers has been discussed on the forum before?
On the Sadop there isn't much information in the litterature.

The Dohong is a ritual dagger that's mostly used in funeral ceremonies.
There are a lot of rumours about it, both because it's quite rare and because it has been mostly for ceremonial pusaka "magic" use as long as outsiders has visited the inner Dayak tribes.

I have gathered what I have found about them at this page and hope that maybe someone could share some additional info and comments?

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/module...=view_album.php

Michael
Attached Images
   
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2006, 07:59 PM   #2
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,140
Thumbs up

VERY INTERESTING AND BEAUTIFUL DAGGERS
THE SHAPE, CARVING AND DESIGNS ARE VERY DIFFERENT FROM THOSE USUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH DAYAK TRIBES IN BORNEO. THE MASK BEING THE CLOSEST TO A TYPICAL DAYAK STYLE. THE ONE WITH A TRIANGULAR BLADE AND USE AT FUNERALS ALSO MAKES ONE WONDER IF THERE IS SOMEHOW AN ASSOCIATION WITH THE PHURBA. I WOULD AGREE THAT THE MANDAU AND ITS COUSINS WERE THE ORIGINAL FORMS OF TOOL/WEAPONS BEFORE THIS TYPE OF DAGGER WAS BROUGHT IN FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. PERHAPS THE FORM WAS DEVELOPED FROM SOME RELIGOUS VISITORS AND THE FORM, USES AND BELIEFS INCORPORATED INTO THE TRIBAL SYSTEM.
ITS ALWAYS COOL TO SEE SOMETHING NEW THANKS FOR SHAREING
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2006, 11:09 AM   #3
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,635
Default

Thanks Vandoo,

Interesting observation.
From what I understand there is a relationship with the Phurba in that the Dohong was used more for shamanistic rituals than as a tool.
I am not sure of the use of the Sadop?
Unfortunately I never saw either of them in use when I was in East Kalimantan 17 years ago. Even if I at one village was lucky to time the first night of a shamanistic rite when I and my guide slept over in a longhouse.
Probably because they are limited to tribes further south?

On the Mandau I am not that confident that they were the original weapons of the Dayak tribes.
Most probably spears and daggers were used before the Mandau?
In the really old myths, like the ones I have quoted from Schärer, spears and daggers are mentioned. But not the Mandau or any other kind of swords.

Michael


Quote:
Originally Posted by VANDOO
VERY INTERESTING AND BEAUTIFUL DAGGERS
THE SHAPE, CARVING AND DESIGNS ARE VERY DIFFERENT FROM THOSE USUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH DAYAK TRIBES IN BORNEO. THE MASK BEING THE CLOSEST TO A TYPICAL DAYAK STYLE. THE ONE WITH A TRIANGULAR BLADE AND USE AT FUNERALS ALSO MAKES ONE WONDER IF THERE IS SOMEHOW AN ASSOCIATION WITH THE PHURBA. I WOULD AGREE THAT THE MANDAU AND ITS COUSINS WERE THE ORIGINAL FORMS OF TOOL/WEAPONS BEFORE THIS TYPE OF DAGGER WAS BROUGHT IN FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. PERHAPS THE FORM WAS DEVELOPED FROM SOME RELIGOUS VISITORS AND THE FORM, USES AND BELIEFS INCORPORATED INTO THE TRIBAL SYSTEM.
ITS ALWAYS COOL TO SEE SOMETHING NEW THANKS FOR SHAREING
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2006, 03:55 PM   #4
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,140
Smile

I AGREE THAT THE DAYAKS PROBABLY USED WOOD, BONE AND STONE TOOLS AND WEAPONS IN THE EARLY TIMES. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY ARTEFACTS FROM THAT TIME SURVIVING IN THE ARCHEOLOGICAL COLLECTIONS. THE BLOWGUN WAS PROBALY IN USE FROM EARLY TIMES ALSO THE OLD DAYAK SHIELDS I HAVE SEEN ARE LIGHT AND MANEUVERABLE AND WOULD BE GOOD FOR BLOCKING BLOWGUN DARTS BUT I WOULD THINK COULD BE EASILY SPLIT WITH A MANDAU OR SPEAR. I HAVE WONDERED WHAT PART THEY ACTUALLY PLAYED IN WARFARE OR IF THEY WERE LEFT AT HOME AND PLAYED A MORE CEREMONIAL ROLE AND WERE DECORATED TO SHOW A WARRIORS STORY AND PROWNESS?

THE MANDAU PROBABLY ARRIVED IN THE FORM OF A LARGE JUNGLE KNIFE FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE AND BECAME A HOT TRADE ITEM AS KNIVES AND AXES HAVE ALWAYS DONE IN ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD THRU OUT HISTORY. YOU WOULD BE TOP DOG IN THE TRIBE IF YOU HAD THE FIRST STEEL BLADED TOOL/WEAPON AND EVERYONE WOULD WANT ONE. THE TRIBAL DECORATIONS, TRADITIONS AND BELIEFS WOULD HAVE DEVELOPED OVER TIME. FOR SOME REASON I SUSPECT THE TWO DAGGERS YOU POSTED ARRIVED LATER THAN THE LARGER JUNGLE CHOPPING PREDECESSOR OF THE MANDAU AND ITS KIN. I THINK THE PISO PODANG ALSO ARRIVED IN BORNEO LATER. THE LATOK I HAVE NO GUESSES
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2006, 05:52 PM   #5
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,635
Default

On the shields their purpose was for the opponents Mandau to get stuck in the wood.

Borneo has had documented contact with India as well as China for at least 1.500 years. They also of course had contact with f.i. Java so Keris and daggers has been around for quite some time.
In the 15th-16th C the Portugese arrived as the first Europeans to Brunei. That's the reason it's called Borneo (Burunei became Bruneo that became Borneo).
The, probably Portugese inspired, NW Borneo war sword Pedang (resembles the Batak Piso Podang) has probably been used for several centuries. First with imported Portugese blades and later locally produced in Brunei.

The oldest Borneo swords I have seen IRL are for some reason both Parang Pedang.
Ben has one and I have one, both estimated to the end of 18th C. Btw Parang Pedang is not the same sword as the Pedang.

According to Shelford f.i. the Jimpul was first used in the late 19th C by the Iban. Their original sword was the Niabor and the Langgai Tinggang.

Maybe Ben can share some additional info on when different swords showed up on Borneo?

Michael
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2006, 08:00 PM   #6
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 947
Default

There are some drawings that show s Dajaks with blowgun and parang-ilang but never see one with Dohun or daggers that is in my opinion not so old on Borneo as the sword the dajaks Used
The daggers have Arabic moslim influence .

the name Maleiers was used by the dutch people for moslim people Arabic boeginezen (that is why we see a lot off krissen from them on Borneo) and Dayaks that became moslim that they see on Borneo in the first part off the 16 cnt
Maleiers where at the cost in mid 13 century not deep inside off Borneo in this time Broenei came in historie
and second some at Djohor te soekadama hindoe javanees people setteld on the Kapoeas (that is to explain why javanees influence swords has been found by Nieuwenhuis

The Dutch Compagnie people had their first contract between The Netherlands and the Sultan off Sambas in 1609.

So Sadap is in my opinnion no dayak weapon but an borneo weapon

There is an mandau form that never been on the forum I have to ask the ex owner if I may show the pics off this one

Other wise I picture the drawing

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:14 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.