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Old 8th July 2019, 04:43 PM   #1
Anthony G.
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Default damage keris tip

My keris tip is somehow damage by the courier company during inspection. The tip is no longer sharp but there is a small 'flat' tip. Anyone can advises should I leave it or try to fix it using a soft rubber hammer etc?
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Old 8th July 2019, 05:45 PM   #2
Jean
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I straightened many kris blades damaged at the tip by means of small pliers first, then careful hammer blows on an anvil if required. I never faced any breakage of the tip but it can happpen....
The shape of your kris tip looks very rounded and the flat tip is very small?
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Old 8th July 2019, 06:24 PM   #3
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That won't be easy to correct Anthony. If it was bent one way or another you might be able to straighten that out; but with it flattened like it is that will be a real challenge.
You would have to cold forge a new tip from the flattened area then dress it to a point with a file of some sort.
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Old 9th July 2019, 12:04 AM   #4
Anthony G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
I straightened many kris blades damaged at the tip by means of small pliers first, then careful hammer blows on an anvil if required. I never faced any breakage of the tip but it can happpen....
The shape of your kris tip looks very rounded and the flat tip is very small?
Regards


Yes, the tip is not too sharp and current flat spot is small.
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Old 9th July 2019, 12:25 AM   #5
A. G. Maisey
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Well Anthony, I don't see this as any major thing at all.

My apologies to everybody else for seeming to be so cavalier --- or as some might say, a "smart-ar*e".

This sort of damage occurs all the time and is very easily corrected, but first, could you give us another photo with the blade side on please?

Is the tip bent off to one side?

Is the tip chipped, is there a piece of metal missing from the tip?

Is it an old blade or a recent one?

Do you know if it has been heat treated?

Whatever the problem is, its an easy fix.
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Old 9th July 2019, 12:43 AM   #6
Anthony G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Well Anthony, I don't see this as any major thing at all.

My apologies to everybody else for seeming to be so cavalier --- or as some might say, a "smart-ar*e".

This sort of damage occurs all the time and is very easily corrected, but first, could you give us another photo with the blade side on please?

Is the tip bent off to one side?

Is the tip chipped, is there a piece of metal missing from the tip?

Is it an old blade or a recent one?

Do you know if it has been heat treated?

Whatever the problem is, its an easy fix.



Hi Alan, to answer your questions:

//quote//
This sort of damage occurs all the time and is very easily corrected, but first, could you give us another photo with the blade side on please?

I will do so tonight when back from office.

//quote//
Is the tip bent off to one side?

Tip is not bent, sort of flatten.

//quote//
Is the tip chipped, is there a piece of metal missing from the tip?

Tip is not chip and no missing metal.

//quote//
Is it an old blade or a recent one?

Newly commissioned.

//quote//
Do you know if it has been heat treated?

The lower part of the bilah seems to be heat treated. I will provide photo tonight of that part.
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Old 9th July 2019, 01:41 PM   #7
Anthony G.
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Hopefully these photo can tell more about the condition. The circled part has been heat treated.
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Last edited by Anthony G. : 9th July 2019 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 9th July 2019, 04:49 PM   #8
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Hello Anthony,

the hardening doesn’t seem to have been really effective - this can be straightened out.

If there was no damage to the parcel, the blade got dropped during the inspection. If so, you really should place a complaint with your customs and follow up on it; IMHO they need some feedback on handling the property of others!

Regards,
Kai
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Old 10th July 2019, 12:18 AM   #9
Anthony G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Anthony,

the hardening doesn’t seem to have been really effective - this can be straightened out.

If there was no damage to the parcel, the blade got dropped during the inspection. If so, you really should place a complaint with your customs and follow up on it; IMHO they need some feedback on handling the property of others!

Regards,
Kai



Actually my heart aches when the hard work and hours put in by the craftsmen gone to waste when it got damage in my hand even though not by my hand. Sigh......... I have so much respect for the craftsmen and keris art.

Even the painted warangka breaks into half.

Our custom usually does not touch property of others due to liabilities. And from my experience, it is the UPS courier co. fault.
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Old 10th July 2019, 02:26 AM   #10
A. G. Maisey
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I'm sorry Anthony, but the tip picture is very unclear, I need to be able to see clearly the degree that this tip is bent, and how it is bent.

However, like Kai, I doubt that this blade has been hardened, if it was hard, the point should have broken off; if it was hardened there should be a reasonably obvious colour change that would be visible in the projecting edge of the core. I can see no colour difference at all.

See if you can do a better close up photo, I cannot see enough in this one.

I need to see the blade from the edge and I need to confirm that there is in fact no metal missing from the tip.
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Old 10th July 2019, 04:18 AM   #11
Anthony G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
I'm sorry Anthony, but the tip picture is very unclear, I need to be able to see clearly the degree that this tip is bent, and how it is bent.

However, like Kai, I doubt that this blade has been hardened, if it was hard, the point should have broken off; if it was hardened there should be a reasonably obvious colour change that would be visible in the projecting edge of the core. I can see no colour difference at all.

See if you can do a better close up photo, I cannot see enough in this one.

I need to see the blade from the edge and I need to confirm that there is in fact no metal missing from the tip.


i tried to take many photo but results are bad. I took this photo which slightly tilted. hope it helps.
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Old 10th July 2019, 08:08 AM   #12
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Hello Anthony,

Like you, I like my blades to be in perfect condition. Unfortunately, nothing is perfect...

I had exactly the same problem with a few kerises (but also with other blades) I got in some auctions.
In all situations, I managed to repair the blades myself, so that the repairv is practically invisible to the naked eye or even under magnifying glass examination.

What I did, was:
1. straighten up the bent tip with pliers and/or gentle hammering with a very light hammer
2. very light & fine polishing of the very tip (this means just 0.5-2 mm, precisely at the bent area)
3. apply very diluted etchant (I used very diluted Nital, because that was the only etchant I had but I assume that even instant coffee will do the job) to the very tip until it gets exactly the same patina like the rest.

Unfortunately, in most cases, during step 1 the bent material broke off.
Then:
2a. reshape the tip with a very fine file, then do steps 2 and 3 from above.

I have absolutely no idea if what I did was right, but certainly the results were always very good (at least to my eyes). I am just a mechanical engineer and have no special blade-working skills, so I assume that almost everybody can do what I did.

I am very curious to read what other fellows here have to say about this.

Well, anyhow don't get too upset because as Alan said it is nothing that can't be fixed easily.


PS: I found this happening quite often with keris blades, probably because the relatively softer material of the blades.

PPS: Very beautiful pamor. Why don't you show us the whole blade?
The brownish patination near the tip is not very visible and I wouldn't bother, but if you are bothered you can try and clean it with WD40, applied stricly there with a toothpick and some wrapped cotton. My two cents.

Last edited by mariusgmioc : 10th July 2019 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 10th July 2019, 09:36 AM   #13
Anthony G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
Hello Anthony,

Like you, I like my blades to be in perfect condition. Unfortunately, nothing is perfect...

I had exactly the same problem with a few kerises (but also with other blades) I got in some auctions.
In all situations, I managed to repair the blades myself, so that the repairv is practically invisible to the naked eye or even under magnifying glass examination.

What I did, was:
1. straighten up the bent tip with pliers and/or gentle hammering with a very light hammer
2. very light & fine polishing of the very tip (this means just 0.5-2 mm, precisely at the bent area)
3. apply very diluted etchant (I used very diluted Nital, because that was the only etchant I had but I assume that even instant coffee will do the job) to the very tip until it gets exactly the same patina like the rest.

Unfortunately, in most cases, during step 1 the bent material broke off.
Then:
2a. reshape the tip with a very fine file, then do steps 2 and 3 from above.

I have absolutely no idea if what I did was right, but certainly the results were always very good (at least to my eyes). I am just a mechanical engineer and have no special blade-working skills, so I assume that almost everybody can do what I did.

I am very curious to read what other fellows here have to say about this.

Well, anyhow don't get too upset because as Alan said it is nothing that can't be fixed easily.


PS: I found this happening quite often with keris blades, probably because the relatively softer material of the blades.

PPS: Very beautiful pamor. Why don't you show us the whole blade?
The brownish patination near the tip is not very visible and I wouldn't bother, but if you are bothered you can try and clean it with WD40, applied stricly there with a toothpick and some wrapped cotton. My two cents.




Thank you for your kind words.
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Old 10th July 2019, 01:55 PM   #14
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Thank you for the photo!

I love to see beautiful blades, so more photos... please!

Lovely pamor!
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
Thank you for the photo!

I love to see beautiful blades, so more photos... please!

Lovely pamor!



Here you go.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24903
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Old 11th July 2019, 07:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony G.



Thanks! Lovely blade!
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Old 11th July 2019, 10:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony G.
i tried to take many photo but results are bad. I took this photo which slightly tilted. hope it helps.


And from the other side of the blade ?

I am interested to know what Alan will advise when we have the complete picture.
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
And from the other side of the blade ?

I am interested to know what Alan will advise when we have the complete picture.


The other side of the bilah is the same. I will have to take the photo during weekend where it is better to take the photo during normal daytime. The photo will be clearer.
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