Blunderbuss with bayonet

Ken Maddock · 19th January 2015, 08:20 PM

Hi all
Just recently purchased the attached blunderbuss
It looks to me to be of 1800's production with a typical Brown Bess mechanism, the trigger guard does not have the hole for the sling but it looks like the shape of a BB
the nice aspects of the gun is obviously the spring loaded bayonet but nothing in usual really with this, the spring is broken but this can easily be replaced
What is nice to have are the markings on the barrel, London, and London proof marks So this is city of manufacture but the letters and numbers further down the barrel are what I like most
A-N 7421
This is the irish registration number
A-N being for Antrim ( a county in Northern Ireland) followed by the gun number for the county 7421
Each county obviously has its own two letters

I can not find any records for these numbers being registered against owners but
You never know what turns up.
Hope you like it as it as much as I do, have been looking for one at the right price for a while
I also got a lovely 4 bore percussion shot gun in the same deal but this would be a bit modern for you guys and girls
Keep well
Ken

fernando · 20th January 2015, 03:59 PM

Nice ... very, very nice

These bronze barrels are a rather added value

.

Fernando K · 23rd January 2015, 03:00 PM

hello

I fail to distinguish, but I think the test punches are from Birmingham, or perhaps the particular test the Tower of London

Affectionately. Fernando K
(Sorry for the translator)

Ken Maddock · 23rd January 2015, 06:54 PM

Hi
Fernando
Does the attached pictures help
For the sake. Of completion I also have taken a shot of the proof marks on the other pistol I have up on forum at moment
Regards to all
Ken

kahnjar1 · 23rd January 2015, 07:07 PM

Some clear pics of the proof marks will confirm the origin of this piece. It should be noted though, that the Crown and GR on the lock narrows the age down somewhat. IF the GR is George 3rd then he reigned 1760 to 1820, and was followed by George 4th from 1820 to 1830.....so this narrows things down to a span of only 70 years.
The next king George reigned from 1910 which is too late for this piece.
Stu

Ken.....Looks as if our posts crossed. I will check my book on Proof and come back.
Stu

Well that did not take long....
On the Blunderbus the marks are English used from 1750 to 1800 so that would point to George 3rd. These would be London marks as the Birmingham Proof House was not established until 1813.
The marks on the pistol seem to be London PROVED (Crown and P) and VIEW (Crown and V) marks. I cannot be 100% sure of these marks as they do not exactly match, but are similar to marks for Proved and View used by the London Proof House.
Stu

Ken Maddock · 23rd January 2015, 07:37 PM

Hi Stu
Thanks for the information
Were blunderbuss military issue as the GR lock indicates or would the lock be just used as a standard part on civilian guns
I know they were issued to post carriages but otherwise were they just civilian personal defence
I have another blunderbuss barrel in the attic, brass again, but I think the proof marks are different I will have a look
Regards
Ken

Fernando K · 23rd January 2015, 07:39 PM

hello

The presence of two crossed scepters indicates the "private punch" of the Tower. It was the punch that was submitted by manufacturers, to weapons that were destined to the civilian market, not the Crown. The "Board of Ordnance" in the Tower, had his own dyno and submitted this to the barrel bought from private manufacturers and testing also admitted of the barrel for the civilian market. Regulatory weapons they received the punch of the two cross and crowned (in addition to the figure of the reigning monarch) scepters and arms for individuals were receiving the same punch, but applied twice.

The absence in the lock of the actual figure, GR and "broad arrow" indicates that a lock intended to be sold to the Crown use and does not get to be used in a service weapon, and the presence of "private punch "the Tower, which is a weapon intended for the civilian market.

The other punches corresponds to Testbed Birmingham, before 1813

Affectionately. Fernando K
(Sorry for the translator)

kahnjar1 · 23rd January 2015, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Maddock

Hi Stu
Thanks for the information
Were blunderbuss military issue as the GR lock indicates or would the lock be just used as a standard part on civilian guns
I know they were issued to post carriages but otherwise were they just civilian personal defence
I have another blunderbuss barrel in the attic, brass again, but I think the proof marks are different I will have a look
Regards
Ken

Point taken. This could have been used (or made for) one of the "crown" enterprises such as Postal, Customs etc. Not likely military, and the use of the so called Broad Arrow mark is not a "given" anyway. Despite no George number, the proof marks place it as George 3rd.

19th January 2015, 08:20 PM	#1
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Blunderbuss with bayonet Hi all Just recently purchased the attached blunderbuss It looks to me to be of 1800's production with a typical Brown Bess mechanism, the trigger guard does not have the hole for the sling but it looks like the shape of a BB the nice aspects of the gun is obviously the spring loaded bayonet but nothing in usual really with this, the spring is broken but this can easily be replaced What is nice to have are the markings on the barrel, London, and London proof marks So this is city of manufacture but the letters and numbers further down the barrel are what I like most A-N 7421 This is the irish registration number A-N being for Antrim ( a county in Northern Ireland) followed by the gun number for the county 7421 Each county obviously has its own two letters I can not find any records for these numbers being registered against owners but You never know what turns up. Hope you like it as it as much as I do, have been looking for one at the right price for a while I also got a lovely 4 bore percussion shot gun in the same deal but this would be a bit modern for you guys and girls Keep well Ken Attached Images

23rd January 2015, 06:54 PM	#4
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Hi Fernando Does the attached pictures help For the sake. Of completion I also have taken a shot of the proof marks on the other pistol I have up on forum at moment Regards to all Ken Attached Images

23rd January 2015, 07:07 PM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,730	Proof Marks and Dating Some clear pics of the proof marks will confirm the origin of this piece. It should be noted though, that the Crown and GR on the lock narrows the age down somewhat. IF the GR is George 3rd then he reigned 1760 to 1820, and was followed by George 4th from 1820 to 1830.....so this narrows things down to a span of only 70 years. The next king George reigned from 1910 which is too late for this piece. Stu Ken.....Looks as if our posts crossed. I will check my book on Proof and come back. Stu Well that did not take long.... On the Blunderbus the marks are English used from 1750 to 1800 so that would point to George 3rd. These would be London marks as the Birmingham Proof House was not established until 1813. The marks on the pistol seem to be London PROVED (Crown and P) and VIEW (Crown and V) marks. I cannot be 100% sure of these marks as they do not exactly match, but are similar to marks for Proved and View used by the London Proof House. Stu Last edited by kahnjar1; 23rd January 2015 at 07:27 PM.

20th January 2015, 03:59 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Nice ... very, very nice These bronze barrels are a rather added value .

23rd January 2015, 03:00 PM	#3
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 664	hello I fail to distinguish, but I think the test punches are from Birmingham, or perhaps the particular test the Tower of London Affectionately. Fernando K (Sorry for the translator)

23rd January 2015, 07:37 PM	#6
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Hi Stu Thanks for the information Were blunderbuss military issue as the GR lock indicates or would the lock be just used as a standard part on civilian guns I know they were issued to post carriages but otherwise were they just civilian personal defence I have another blunderbuss barrel in the attic, brass again, but I think the proof marks are different I will have a look Regards Ken

23rd January 2015, 07:39 PM	#7
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 664	hello The presence of two crossed scepters indicates the "private punch" of the Tower. It was the punch that was submitted by manufacturers, to weapons that were destined to the civilian market, not the Crown. The "Board of Ordnance" in the Tower, had his own dyno and submitted this to the barrel bought from private manufacturers and testing also admitted of the barrel for the civilian market. Regulatory weapons they received the punch of the two cross and crowned (in addition to the figure of the reigning monarch) scepters and arms for individuals were receiving the same punch, but applied twice. The absence in the lock of the actual figure, GR and "broad arrow" indicates that a lock intended to be sold to the Crown use and does not get to be used in a service weapon, and the presence of "private punch "the Tower, which is a weapon intended for the civilian market. The other punches corresponds to Testbed Birmingham, before 1813 Affectionately. Fernando K (Sorry for the translator)