Automatically Junk?

jmings · 19th October 2005, 04:47 AM

Am I correct in the asssumption that any blade that is engraved "Made in India" is without redeeming value?

The reason I ask is that if it is true then I plan on doing some re-hilting on some of then and possibly re-shaping the blades.

Thank you in advance.

ariel · 19th October 2005, 05:03 AM

As they say about certain surgical procedured, useless but not... worthless

.
From the collector's point of view, these blade have no value, but one can occasionally sell them on e-bay for a couple of bucks.
Do not invest a penny into re-hilting job.

derek · 19th October 2005, 07:28 PM

Hi,

Just another point of view: some of the better quality kukris I have seen are marked "Tempered Steel, Made in India". Well-made, well-tempered, and quite collectible.

I would agree that often the "made in India" stamp is a hallmark of poorer quality, but not always!

-d

Miyamoto · 19th October 2005, 10:27 PM

I think that the mark "made in india" or "made in anything else" is a warranty that the dagger is from recent production... Collectors usually appreciate antique blades and refer to such pieces as crap

, regardeless of qualitiy... Just my point of view..

I've bought once on ebay a beautifull looking brass fitted kindjal. It looked verry old and beautifull from the pictures. When I recived it, I was a little surprised that there was a stylisized made in Syria on the scabbard

and the thig looked still pristine if you looked it from the right distance...

JPSF · 20th October 2005, 01:08 AM

Kukris may be the exception. There are some well made post 1947 pieces that are marked Best Steel, Tempered Steel, or just Tempered that also say Made in India or just India and are good solid examples. Seeing the word INDIA with the British acceptance mark of the "broad arrow" is always a fake mark.

ham · 20th October 2005, 02:32 AM

Students have reported a recurring problem in refitting tourist-grade Made In India blades-- tulwars generally-- this is that the steel is not heat-treated. As a result they tend to be very thick, so that stock removal and shaping require a great deal of work. Despite this, unless treated before mounting, they will not generally hold an edge.

Ham

tom hyle · 23rd October 2005, 07:22 PM

Numbers of high quality blades and numbers of low quality blades are made in India. The mark means little or nothing in this regard. No more does Mexico, USA, Germany, England, Spain, or anywhere else; no monopoly on junk. But junk according to who? Antique collectors often speak in the sneeringest terms of anything new (sometimes even newly repaired), whereas a martial artist might praise a new spring-tempered windlass shortsword and sneer at an older one (which are mostly quite soft), and a traditionalist might not care how old a thing is if it's made properly; a craftsman might not care if it's made properly if it's made well. Swords appeal in many different markets for many different reasons. Windlass in particular tends to make better short than longswords, to have good temper and poor balance (too heavy in the tip, but OK if you don't mind doing some major regrinding); and they tend to be the "gold standard" of using quality Hindoo steel in USA. There is folded steel, and even wootz from some modern Hindoo cutlers, but I cannot speak to their temper; wootz isn't even suposed to have temper in the usual sense, is my understanding (ie. according to Moltenmuse).
In general I'd say I more address a sword as a sword than for what may be written on it or where it's from....

Aurangzeb · 24th October 2005, 12:11 AM

Hello all!

Personally I don't care how old or recent a piece is as long as it is in decent shape and relatively good quality. Even a well made tourist piece suits me. But a lot less good quality stuff is coming out of Morocco and Turkey. I have a choora that is stamped 'Made in India' and it is very good quality and a nice thick blade.

Mark...

19th October 2005, 04:47 AM	#1
jmings Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tebbetts, Missouri, USA Posts: 49	Automatically Junk? Am I correct in the asssumption that any blade that is engraved "Made in India" is without redeeming value? The reason I ask is that if it is true then I plan on doing some re-hilting on some of then and possibly re-shaping the blades. Thank you in advance.

19th October 2005, 05:03 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As they say about certain surgical procedured, useless but not... worthless . From the collector's point of view, these blade have no value, but one can occasionally sell them on e-bay for a couple of bucks. Do not invest a penny into re-hilting job.

19th October 2005, 07:28 PM	#3
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Hi, Just another point of view: some of the better quality kukris I have seen are marked "Tempered Steel, Made in India". Well-made, well-tempered, and quite collectible. I would agree that often the "made in India" stamp is a hallmark of poorer quality, but not always! -d

19th October 2005, 10:27 PM	#4
Miyamoto Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 44	I think that the mark "made in india" or "made in anything else" is a warranty that the dagger is from recent production... Collectors usually appreciate antique blades and refer to such pieces as crap , regardeless of qualitiy... Just my point of view.. I've bought once on ebay a beautifull looking brass fitted kindjal. It looked verry old and beautifull from the pictures. When I recived it, I was a little surprised that there was a stylisized made in Syria on the scabbard and the thig looked still pristine if you looked it from the right distance...

20th October 2005, 01:08 AM	#5
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	Kukris may be the exception. There are some well made post 1947 pieces that are marked Best Steel, Tempered Steel, or just Tempered that also say Made in India or just India and are good solid examples. Seeing the word INDIA with the British acceptance mark of the "broad arrow" is always a fake mark.

20th October 2005, 02:32 AM	#6
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Students have reported a recurring problem in refitting tourist-grade Made In India blades-- tulwars generally-- this is that the steel is not heat-treated. As a result they tend to be very thick, so that stock removal and shaping require a great deal of work. Despite this, unless treated before mounting, they will not generally hold an edge. Ham

23rd October 2005, 07:22 PM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Numbers of high quality blades and numbers of low quality blades are made in India. The mark means little or nothing in this regard. No more does Mexico, USA, Germany, England, Spain, or anywhere else; no monopoly on junk. But junk according to who? Antique collectors often speak in the sneeringest terms of anything new (sometimes even newly repaired), whereas a martial artist might praise a new spring-tempered windlass shortsword and sneer at an older one (which are mostly quite soft), and a traditionalist might not care how old a thing is if it's made properly; a craftsman might not care if it's made properly if it's made well. Swords appeal in many different markets for many different reasons. Windlass in particular tends to make better short than longswords, to have good temper and poor balance (too heavy in the tip, but OK if you don't mind doing some major regrinding); and they tend to be the "gold standard" of using quality Hindoo steel in USA. There is folded steel, and even wootz from some modern Hindoo cutlers, but I cannot speak to their temper; wootz isn't even suposed to have temper in the usual sense, is my understanding (ie. according to Moltenmuse). In general I'd say I more address a sword as a sword than for what may be written on it or where it's from....

24th October 2005, 12:11 AM	#8
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello all! Personally I don't care how old or recent a piece is as long as it is in decent shape and relatively good quality. Even a well made tourist piece suits me. But a lot less good quality stuff is coming out of Morocco and Turkey. I have a choora that is stamped 'Made in India' and it is very good quality and a nice thick blade. Mark...