Another for ID Assistance?

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 03:18 AM

Here's another that I just bought from Ebay that hasn't arrived yet:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT
My first impression when I saw it was of one of those African dance wands that were seen a couple of years ago, but the more I looked at it, the more it reminded me of a variant of an executioner's sword that I'd seen recently with a very similar blade........I can't remember the tribal designation, but at the time the comment was made that it was much less common than the Nagala form.
The more I looked at the weight and size of this one, the more it intruiged me until I just HAD to actually see and hold it.
What can I say...the pieces that are unusual just keep piqueing my curiosity to the point that I can't resist! **grin**
All of the time spent trying to identify them makes them more than just an impulse as well.

Ian · 15th February 2005, 05:08 AM

Mike:

I have a similar one that I picked up a few years ago. It was said to come from Benin too. Mine has a straight blade. Your's is much more interesting in shape. "Heavy and solid" is somewhat of an understatement -- these are a real handful. Not something I would want to use to defend myself in a fight (much too heavy and slow), but they would certainly make a great beheading implement!

Ian.

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 05:15 AM

LOL!
True...it's very difficult for a kneeling man with bound hands to jump out of the way!
I would presume that it's probably largely ceremonial or status oriented, although with many parts of the world it's not wise to consider these other uses all in the past either.
The apparent sharp edge along the back of the "hook" is what reminded me of a N'Gala sword and made me want to see up close, while yours being straight is even more curious....do you have a photo of it?

Ian · 15th February 2005, 05:40 AM

Mike:

Just pulled mine out and my memory was faulty. It has an upturned tip and a very slight recurve, but not nearly as pronounced as yours. The blackened handle is almost identical in its incised decoration, but the talismanic symbols on the blade are somewhat different. I will try to get some pictures in the next few days.

Ian.

Jim McDougall · 16th February 2005, 12:40 AM

Hi Mike,
This interesting sword does indeed appear from Benin, formerly known as Dahomey in the 19th century. It seems to be one of the ceremonial/ sacrificial sabres known locally there as 'hwi'. These are mentioned and illustrated nominally in "African Arms & Armour" by Christopher Spring (p.67) but the examples shown are a bit more elaborate. In the article Spring cites concerning these ("Sabres decores du Dahomey", Palau Marti, 1967) there are illustrations indicating the wider range of variation these 'hwi' carried, from very simple to elaborately artistic.
The marking on the blade seems to be a native interpretation of the cabalistic stars seen on talismanic motif on European blades on the 18th century, usually seen along with sun and crescent moon. It is common to see native application of these symbols on blades as they considered that these imbued the blades with power and quality. It is curious why only the star would be chosen, and possibly it closely associated with elements of their own folk religion.

The ritual ceremonies known in Dahomey were termed locally 'the custom' , while Sir Richard Burton, who observed the horrors of these sacrificial events in 1863, called them 'the Evil Nights'. There are illustrations of more of these 'hwi' in line drawings in Burton's "Book of the Sword" , 1884, p.167-69 along with narrative on this subject. These 'ceremonies' were of course finally suppressed, but the symbolism in the weapons are maintained in tradition.

It is interesting that on your blade there are chevrons inscribed, and Burton mentions that feature in his book in describing some of the weapons.

It is further interesting to note that the folk religion in Dahomey and its surrounding regions formed the basis for Vodun, which is the French term for what became known as Voodoo in the Caribbean and southern U.S. via the Africans who arrived unfortunately in the slave trade.

Best regards,
Jim

Conogre · 17th February 2005, 06:25 AM

Wow!
Thank you Jim....I'm digging out my "Spring's" now and will look up the other.
Thank you for a veritable wealth of knowledge on this one!
Now that the auction is over, I just narrowly missed out on a beautiful Shi sword, only the 3rd that I've seen and was crushed!

15th February 2005, 03:18 AM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Another for ID Assistance? Here's another that I just bought from Ebay that hasn't arrived yet: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT My first impression when I saw it was of one of those African dance wands that were seen a couple of years ago, but the more I looked at it, the more it reminded me of a variant of an executioner's sword that I'd seen recently with a very similar blade........I can't remember the tribal designation, but at the time the comment was made that it was much less common than the Nagala form. The more I looked at the weight and size of this one, the more it intruiged me until I just HAD to actually see and hold it. What can I say...the pieces that are unusual just keep piqueing my curiosity to the point that I can't resist! grin All of the time spent trying to identify them makes them more than just an impulse as well.

15th February 2005, 05:08 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,034	Benin sword Mike: I have a similar one that I picked up a few years ago. It was said to come from Benin too. Mine has a straight blade. Your's is much more interesting in shape. "Heavy and solid" is somewhat of an understatement -- these are a real handful. Not something I would want to use to defend myself in a fight (much too heavy and slow), but they would certainly make a great beheading implement! Ian.

15th February 2005, 05:15 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	LOL! True...it's very difficult for a kneeling man with bound hands to jump out of the way! I would presume that it's probably largely ceremonial or status oriented, although with many parts of the world it's not wise to consider these other uses all in the past either. The apparent sharp edge along the back of the "hook" is what reminded me of a N'Gala sword and made me want to see up close, while yours being straight is even more curious....do you have a photo of it?

15th February 2005, 05:40 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,034	Mike: Just pulled mine out and my memory was faulty. It has an upturned tip and a very slight recurve, but not nearly as pronounced as yours. The blackened handle is almost identical in its incised decoration, but the talismanic symbols on the blade are somewhat different. I will try to get some pictures in the next few days. Ian.

16th February 2005, 12:40 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,757	Hi Mike, This interesting sword does indeed appear from Benin, formerly known as Dahomey in the 19th century. It seems to be one of the ceremonial/ sacrificial sabres known locally there as 'hwi'. These are mentioned and illustrated nominally in "African Arms & Armour" by Christopher Spring (p.67) but the examples shown are a bit more elaborate. In the article Spring cites concerning these ("Sabres decores du Dahomey", Palau Marti, 1967) there are illustrations indicating the wider range of variation these 'hwi' carried, from very simple to elaborately artistic. The marking on the blade seems to be a native interpretation of the cabalistic stars seen on talismanic motif on European blades on the 18th century, usually seen along with sun and crescent moon. It is common to see native application of these symbols on blades as they considered that these imbued the blades with power and quality. It is curious why only the star would be chosen, and possibly it closely associated with elements of their own folk religion. The ritual ceremonies known in Dahomey were termed locally 'the custom' , while Sir Richard Burton, who observed the horrors of these sacrificial events in 1863, called them 'the Evil Nights'. There are illustrations of more of these 'hwi' in line drawings in Burton's "Book of the Sword" , 1884, p.167-69 along with narrative on this subject. These 'ceremonies' were of course finally suppressed, but the symbolism in the weapons are maintained in tradition. It is interesting that on your blade there are chevrons inscribed, and Burton mentions that feature in his book in describing some of the weapons. It is further interesting to note that the folk religion in Dahomey and its surrounding regions formed the basis for Vodun, which is the French term for what became known as Voodoo in the Caribbean and southern U.S. via the Africans who arrived unfortunately in the slave trade. Best regards, Jim

17th February 2005, 06:25 AM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Wow! Thank you Jim....I'm digging out my "Spring's" now and will look up the other. Thank you for a veritable wealth of knowledge on this one! Now that the auction is over, I just narrowly missed out on a beautiful Shi sword, only the 3rd that I've seen and was crushed!