Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 3rd March 2023, 03:47 PM   #1
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default New pieces from the collection of General Shockley

New additions from the collection of General M.A.W. Shockley!!

Enjoy!!
Attached Images
      
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 03:50 PM   #2
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default Providence from his estate

By visiting the auction house I was able to obtain direct photographic evidence.
Attached Images
    
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 05:10 PM   #3
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Default

Gosh they are nice. Did you or was there any issues about the ivory? I am sure others would be interested to know.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 05:59 PM   #4
kino
Member
 
kino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 967
Default

What a haul. Congrats.
Where’s the Kris with the Garuda(?) hilt.
He must’ve placed those ray skins on the handles.
kino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 08:21 PM   #5
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Congratulations. I saw that auction, but no money to bid. I love not only the krises but also the Tagalog piece with the carved horn and horn/silver scabbard (I was going to go for that one ).

Also great to have provenance!

Would you be able to post the weapons pictures individually here?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 09:21 PM   #6
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons View Post
Gosh they are nice. Did you or was there any issues about the ivory? I am sure others would be interested to know.
I assume this auction took place in the USA and it seems that this portion of the collection has remained there. Generally these issues don't arise unless the items in question are crossing international borders.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 09:22 PM   #7
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Brilliant additions to any collection. Congratulations!
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 09:29 PM   #8
carlos
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 731
Default

Congratulations!!! Great collection, the horn and silver bolo is : !!!!
Thanks for sharing
Carlos
carlos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 11:18 PM   #9
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Congratulations!

I got the one I wanted, you pushed me far with it though... you'll know the one... if your research reveals its actual origins, please do write to me.

With thanks

Gavin
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 11:34 PM   #10
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent View Post
Congratulations!

I got the one I wanted, you pushed me far with it though... you'll know the one... if your research reveals its actual origins, please do write to me.

With thanks

Gavin
Gavin,

Next time we should talk first!!! I was able to see your Garuda in person and it is magnificent! I believe the back portion of the hilt is solid cast metal. It has the serious potential to be gold!!! There’s no tarnish on the cast portion and it doesn’t appear to have been cleaned. I think you will be very happy!! You also have direct providence on the Kris!! See these pictures.

Ron will also be very happy with the axe!!! I should have looked at that piece more closely… it’s seriously special also.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by SanibelSwassa; 3rd March 2023 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Additional info…
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 11:36 PM   #11
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara View Post
Congratulations. I saw that auction, but no money to bid. I love not only the krises but also the Tagalog piece with the carved horn and horn/silver scabbard (I was going to go for that one ).

Also great to have provenance!

Would you be able to post the weapons pictures individually here?
Yes will post individual pics of the pieces once I get them cleaned up a bit.
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 11:39 PM   #12
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlos View Post
Congratulations!!! Great collection, the horn and silver bolo is : !!!!
Thanks for sharing
Carlos
It is my fist Luzon piece and is the most ornate piece I’ve seen and in incredible shape. The carving on the scabbard is so next level… I honestly don’t know how that could be done.
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 11:43 PM   #13
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons View Post
Gosh they are nice. Did you or was there any issues about the ivory? I am sure others would be interested to know.
Tim,

Intra-State on pieces this old there aren’t any issues where I live. DO NOT attempt anything like this with international purchases!! I recently had piece go through that process from Italy and it took several months… none where Ivory and it was still a really difficult process and cost significantly more to get the items to the US.

Hope that helps!!
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2023, 11:59 PM   #14
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanibelSwassa View Post
Gavin,

Next time we should talk first!!! I was able to see your Garuda in person and it is magnificent! I believe the back portion of the hilt is solid cast metal. It has the serious potential to be gold!!! There’s no tarnish on the cast portion and it doesn’t appear to have been cleaned. I think you will be very happy!! You also have direct providence on the Kris!! See these pictures.

Ron will also be very happy with the axe!!! I should have looked at that piece more closely… it’s seriously special also.
Happy I was, happier I am now with your insights, thank you! This is indeed good news and as I thought it had potential to be too...Sultan level potential.
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2023, 03:54 AM   #15
Rafngard
Member
 
Rafngard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Posts: 321
Default

Am I mad, or am I seeing sharkskin on the hilts of some of those kris?
Rafngard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2023, 05:40 AM   #16
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafngard View Post
Am I mad, or am I seeing sharkskin on the hilts of some of those kris?
Ray skin I suspect... perhaps considered more durable that resin coated cord when at sea and that ray skin offered a very positive non slip grip in the hand when wet... could simply be intended for a practical nature...
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2023, 08:02 AM   #17
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Default

I ask about the Ivory as most if not all auction rooms in the UK will not deal with ivory items and I thought that was spreading internationally. Glad you had no problem.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2023, 08:29 AM   #18
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 410
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons View Post
I ask about the Ivory as most if not all auction rooms in the UK will not deal with ivory items and I thought that was spreading internationally. Glad you had no problem.
Between EU UK and the rest of the world Ivory trade is as good as practically dead from last year it is really only possible to sell to museums


read what I wrote here

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23029

Within the US 3 states have signed a similar act banning trade across state lines.
milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2023, 12:09 PM   #19
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafngard View Post
Am I mad, or am I seeing sharkskin on the hilts of some of those kris?
Three of them are definitely Ray skin. They appear to have been ray skin in the pics also… but may not have been that way originally.
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2023, 07:57 PM   #20
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,419
Default

Stunning! Congrats for your new acquisitions.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2023, 08:28 PM   #21
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Poor quality image, but an example of the Bolo type from the collection. Met Museum.
Attached Images
 
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2023, 01:03 AM   #22
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent View Post
Poor quality image, but an example of the Bolo type from the collection. Met Museum.
Just finished a first round of basic clean up.
Attached Images
     
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2023, 03:05 AM   #23
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Second clean up completed… might need some translation assistance.
Attached Images
      
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2023, 03:35 AM   #24
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Great clean up! Great twist core! Never seen Jawi on the baka-baka before, nor have I seen hilt bands like that! Silver and swassa - VERY nice.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2023, 05:12 AM   #25
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara View Post
Great clean up! Great twist core! Never seen Jawi on the baka-baka before, nor have I seen hilt bands like that! Silver and swassa - VERY nice.
Battara, is it the combination or materials of the design/assembly of the silver/swassa you have not seen before?
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2023, 11:57 PM   #26
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Oh I've seen and made swassa bands before. But the patterns on the swassa bands and their style - no.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2023, 01:03 AM   #27
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Another kris fresh from basic clean up!! The Ray skin wrap appears to have been a later addition after the kris was collected. It is solid and feels good in the hand… still very tight. The twist core is visible but not deeply etched. There are marks on one of the baca that may be decorative or talismanic.

Enjoy!!

SS
Attached Images
      
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2023, 01:20 AM   #28
werecow
Member
 
werecow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Leiden, NL
Posts: 430
Default

I'm curious about the length of the large sundang. Also would like your cleaning superpowers.
werecow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2023, 02:04 AM   #29
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara View Post
Oh I've seen and made swassa bands before. But the patterns on the swassa bands and their style - no.
That's what I thought.

The closest I've seen to that motif in swassa is arrangements of 3 half moons to make the triangle shape, not yet the V shape with circle in the center...
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2023, 02:11 AM   #30
SanibelSwassa
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sanibel Florida
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent View Post
That's what I thought.

The closest I've seen to that motif in swassa is arrangements of 3 half moons to make the triangle shape, not yet the V shape with circle in the center...
I will get you a better pic as the motif is impressive and varied in the hilt stack… all of which are still tight and true.
SanibelSwassa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
moro twist core kris

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.