New Rock Crystal Pesh-kabz

Jens Nordlunde · 6th March 2020, 02:54 PM

You are right Ariel, here are two pictures attached, and according to the text, it is not only how the horse is holding/turning the ears, it also has something to do with the way the head is sculptured.
Presious Indian Weapons, and Other Princely Accoutrements. The al-Sabah Collection, Kuwait. Thames and Hudson, 2017. The author is Salam Kaoukji.
The one with the rubies is cat. no 67 and the other one is cat. no 67
No 67 is said to be a Marwari horse head and no 68 is said to be an Arabian horse head.
The same pictures can also be found in Treasury of The World, Jewelled Arts of India in the Age og the Mughals. Thames and Hudson, 2001. Here the authors are Manuel Keene and Salam Kaoukji. Nos. 8.18 and 8.19.

mariusgmioc · 7th March 2020, 05:14 PM

Very interesting!

However, mine seems to have bigger ears... maybe is a donkey?!

ariel · 7th March 2020, 09:15 PM

We are not looking for donkeys here:-)
The question is: Arabian or Marwari?

Jens Nordlunde · 8th March 2020, 10:54 AM

From the pictures shown in the catalogue, I would say it is an Arabian horse head.

ariel · 8th March 2020, 09:01 PM

Quite likely; I just want to be 100% sure.

Jens Nordlunde · 8th March 2020, 10:41 PM

I see, but how do you want to make quite sure?
The Marwari race seems - according to the catalogue - a mix between the Arabian race and an Indian race. Could be!
Somewhere I read that the Indians - likely rather early - fed their horses with porridge and stuff like that, which 'made sure' that they did not live so long.
So the Indians had to import thousands of horses, every year, from Arabia and Persia. These horses were, of course, without tax, as they were badly needed, and restrictions were made only to sell them to very few rulers - and not to others.

ariel · 9th March 2020, 03:38 AM

I do not know anything about horse breeding, but Marwari/Kathiawari horses shared a specific genetic trait that was absent among the Arabian horses.

If we see signs of it, we can be pretty sure that the model for this handle had at least some Indian blood.

As part of my day job:-) there was a time when I was dabbling a bit into canine/feline endocrinology. The Arab/ Marwari question has nothing to do with hormones, but ... in for a penny, in for a pound. Nothing I would get involved in, but just for the kicks of it!

Such bizarre facts always impress gullible endocrine fellows:-)

6th March 2020, 02:54 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	You are right Ariel, here are two pictures attached, and according to the text, it is not only how the horse is holding/turning the ears, it also has something to do with the way the head is sculptured. Presious Indian Weapons, and Other Princely Accoutrements. The al-Sabah Collection, Kuwait. Thames and Hudson, 2017. The author is Salam Kaoukji. The one with the rubies is cat. no 67 and the other one is cat. no 67 No 67 is said to be a Marwari horse head and no 68 is said to be an Arabian horse head. The same pictures can also be found in Treasury of The World, Jewelled Arts of India in the Age og the Mughals. Thames and Hudson, 2001. Here the authors are Manuel Keene and Salam Kaoukji. Nos. 8.18 and 8.19. Attached Images

7th March 2020, 05:14 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,878	Very interesting! However, mine seems to have bigger ears... maybe is a donkey?!

7th March 2020, 09:15 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	We are not looking for donkeys here:-) The question is: Arabian or Marwari?

8th March 2020, 10:54 AM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	From the pictures shown in the catalogue, I would say it is an Arabian horse head.

8th March 2020, 09:01 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Quite likely; I just want to be 100% sure.

8th March 2020, 10:41 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	I see, but how do you want to make quite sure? The Marwari race seems - according to the catalogue - a mix between the Arabian race and an Indian race. Could be! Somewhere I read that the Indians - likely rather early - fed their horses with porridge and stuff like that, which 'made sure' that they did not live so long. So the Indians had to import thousands of horses, every year, from Arabia and Persia. These horses were, of course, without tax, as they were badly needed, and restrictions were made only to sell them to very few rulers - and not to others.

9th March 2020, 03:38 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not know anything about horse breeding, but Marwari/Kathiawari horses shared a specific genetic trait that was absent among the Arabian horses. If we see signs of it, we can be pretty sure that the model for this handle had at least some Indian blood. As part of my day job:-) there was a time when I was dabbling a bit into canine/feline endocrinology. The Arab/ Marwari question has nothing to do with hormones, but ... in for a penny, in for a pound. Nothing I would get involved in, but just for the kicks of it! Such bizarre facts always impress gullible endocrine fellows:-)