Indonesian swords

Marcus · 12th August 2013, 01:18 AM

These are two recent acquisitions from Oriental Arms. Artzi associates the Keris with the Bugis, he is less clear on the Pedang Lurus, “common in Java but can be found also in other Indonesian islands”. In any case, the two pieces are certainly both Indonesian, and close contemporaries. This is a new area for me and I would appreciate insightful comments on these pieces and who would have been the original owners. I have read about the cultural significance of the Keris but I know virtually nothing about the cultural context for the Pedang.

Sajen · 12th August 2013, 03:18 AM

Hello Marcus,

please post the keris in the other forum and show us from both pieces more pictures, special from the blades. The keris don't look pure bugis to my eyes but more in direction Peninsula or Sumatra but need other pictures.

The pedang seems to be a classic pedang lurus from Java and seems to be in very complete condition, many I have seen have had demaged scabbards since the silver cover is most of the time thin. Also here, please show the blade.

Regards,

Detlef

Gavin Nugent · 12th August 2013, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Marcus,

please post the keris in the other forum and show us from both pieces more pictures, special from the blades. The keris don't look pure bugis to my eyes but more in direction Peninsula or Sumatra but need other pictures.

The pedang seems to be a classic pedang lurus from Java and seems to be in very complete condition, many I have seen have had demaged scabbards since the silver cover is most of the time thin. Also here, please show the blade.

Regards,

Detlef

I support Detlef's request and notes.

Please show as requested in the required forum as the Keris looks to be Central Western Sumatra but more exacting detail will be discussed in the Keris forum.

The Pedang Lurus come in all qualities over a long period of time, I would be interested in viewing the rest of it here too.

Gavin

Marcus · 12th August 2013, 03:42 AM

As requested.

Marcus · 12th August 2013, 03:44 AM

I look forward to comments about the ethnicity and social status of the person who might have first owned this sword.
Marcus

Sajen · 12th August 2013, 03:48 AM

Yes, a nice complete pedang lurus from Java and better as my own example.

How long is it, blade and complete? The ethnicity is Javanese. Status I can't answer, maybe Alan know more.

A. G. Maisey · 12th August 2013, 07:53 AM

In Jawa, pedang were not status indicators, as keris could often be, and in olden times, were.

However, one would not expect to see a common man with a silver mounted pedang, nor would one expect to see a ruler with a silver mounted pedang. The ruler would very probably opt for gold, the common man for wood, if he even owned a pedang. Mostly common soldiers were armed with spears, and often those spears would not even have iron tips but were simply sharpened and hardened bamboo; this was particularly the case where levies were involved.

This is a pedang of pretty ordinary quality, not outstanding in any way, but it is a good, solid, functional piece in dress that could be used in a formal setting. I would expect to see such a pedang as the property of a middle ranking noble, not a man of exalted status, and not a common soldier.

12th August 2013, 01:18 AM	#1
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Indonesian swords These are two recent acquisitions from Oriental Arms. Artzi associates the Keris with the Bugis, he is less clear on the Pedang Lurus, “common in Java but can be found also in other Indonesian islands”. In any case, the two pieces are certainly both Indonesian, and close contemporaries. This is a new area for me and I would appreciate insightful comments on these pieces and who would have been the original owners. I have read about the cultural significance of the Keris but I know virtually nothing about the cultural context for the Pedang. Attached Images

12th August 2013, 03:42 AM	#4
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	more photos As requested. Attached Images

12th August 2013, 03:44 AM	#5
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	One more I look forward to comments about the ethnicity and social status of the person who might have first owned this sword. Marcus Attached Images

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12th August 2013, 03:18 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,465	Hello Marcus, please post the keris in the other forum and show us from both pieces more pictures, special from the blades. The keris don't look pure bugis to my eyes but more in direction Peninsula or Sumatra but need other pictures. The pedang seems to be a classic pedang lurus from Java and seems to be in very complete condition, many I have seen have had demaged scabbards since the silver cover is most of the time thin. Also here, please show the blade. Regards, Detlef

12th August 2013, 03:48 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,465	Yes, a nice complete pedang lurus from Java and better as my own example. How long is it, blade and complete? The ethnicity is Javanese. Status I can't answer, maybe Alan know more.

12th August 2013, 07:53 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	In Jawa, pedang were not status indicators, as keris could often be, and in olden times, were. However, one would not expect to see a common man with a silver mounted pedang, nor would one expect to see a ruler with a silver mounted pedang. The ruler would very probably opt for gold, the common man for wood, if he even owned a pedang. Mostly common soldiers were armed with spears, and often those spears would not even have iron tips but were simply sharpened and hardened bamboo; this was particularly the case where levies were involved. This is a pedang of pretty ordinary quality, not outstanding in any way, but it is a good, solid, functional piece in dress that could be used in a formal setting. I would expect to see such a pedang as the property of a middle ranking noble, not a man of exalted status, and not a common soldier.