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8th October 2017, 09:36 PM | #1 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_cDCcH05Kk
The monk's gun was found by an amateur archeologist |
9th October 2017, 06:27 PM | #2 |
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Well, Alexander; do you think this movie was really shot while the finding took place, or a simulation of what must have happened ?
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9th October 2017, 07:14 PM | #3 | |
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Quote:
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16th October 2017, 06:47 PM | #4 |
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A myth revisited ?
Just in case the link vanishes here are a few stills to complete the thread.
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17th October 2017, 11:42 AM | #5 |
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Sorry to burst the bubble, but this person makes forgeries for ebay.
He sells haquebuts poleguns etc as well. The fact that this piece is: -so well preserved after a odd 500 years -only 10 cm in to the earth with "fresh" leaves covering the piece -the fact he knows what this is for an "amateur" -the real Monk's gun is just a curio, not a standard firearm of the time and finding another one in the earth like this is more than curious..... Still a fun display and interesting if it where in "new" condition. |
17th October 2017, 12:02 PM | #6 |
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No fun for me; an hoax is always an hoax, no matter the context.
Many people may (are) deceived with this crap. ... Even Alexander, for one, has hesitated. |
17th October 2017, 12:15 PM | #7 |
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You are absolutely right Nando. even the best are sometimes decieved we all have that experience
If you are not sure about an item always ask for clear pictures with daylight to see patina, structure, how it was made etc. Or even better see it in person if it is possible. |
3rd January 2021, 05:12 PM | #8 |
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Hello together,
my name is Claus and I joined this forum just to dig out this old thread. I'm fascinated by this gun since I first saw it in Dresden about 20 years ago. Now I got the time to built a copy to answer the question about the possibility of using it. My first trials were disappointing - as mentioned in the thread the rasp ignition didn't work. I will improve the rasp next days and try again... So I would like to know if anybody of you got new informations or understanding about this interesting part of gun-history? I have a fear that the Dresden monks gun is an attempt that never was in service due to several other problems as holding the ignition powder in the pan when attached to the belt. I'm curious about your opinions, greetings from south-west Germany, Claus |
11th January 2021, 03:00 PM | #9 |
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My conclusion is that the Monks gun was a generic term referring to an early rasp operated ignition system associated by tradition with the monk Berthold Schwartz . Of which the Dresden gun is a late and probably non functional example . Thierbach ( Die geschiliche Entwickelung der Handfeurwaffen - Dresden 1886-7) illustrates two other examples , one a brass cannon lock manually operated in the Zeunghaus , Berlin and a gun lock in Sigmaringen Museum actuated by a spiral spring. If anyone has a copy of this book or knows these examples it would be good to see illustrations.
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10th December 2023, 03:48 PM | #10 |
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The monks gun revisited - again
The issue is that the Monks gun in the Rüstkammer museum Dresden frequently described and illustrated doesn’t actually work. Experimenters have confirmed that despite any amount pushing or pulling of the handle this doesn’t create enough friction to raise a spark .So why did someone go to the trouble of making such a mechanism if it was fundamentally flawed ? Is there something missing from our understanding of how it works and I think I may have found the answer.
In any friction operated firearm kinetic energy has to be stored such as in a spring and then quickly released to generate the friction needed to create a spark. The trouble is the monks gun relies entirely on human effort so how is the stored energy first created and then released ? In the Rüstkammer gun the end of the serpentine wraps round a pin to the left of the lock plate and it is assumed bears on the bottom of the lock plate to elevate the serpentine when the adjustment screw is turned. An important detail missing from diagrammatic representations. In the drawing below this spring is shaped so as to press down on the end of the friction bar trapping the bar against the base of the lock plate. In the proposed sequence of operations the thing is primed and the tension screw adjusted to bring the pyrites into contact with friction bar and also control the pressure of this secondary spring on the friction bar. Pulling very hard on the operating handle eventually overcomes the downward pressure of this spring on the friction bar which is then released moving rapidly rearward hopefully having achieving a speed sufficient for ignition to occur. The adjusting screw determines when sufficient pulling effort has been generated and the point at which the friction bar is automatically released . The action is the same as pulling a cork out of a bottle . Muscular energy is created and stored in the effort of trying to pull the cork and this energy is quickly released as the cork leaves the bottle. Irrespective of whether or not this is the way the Rüstkammer gun was designed to work it does show how a simple friction bar mechanism could be made to work relying on human energy alone . Despite the stylistic evidence of the barrel , which suggests a date 1520/30 I very much doubt this was when it was made The general feel of the thing doesn’t seem consistent with the early sixteenth century and in this form was impractical as a hand held firearm. My conclusion is that the Rüstkammer gun is a historisistic re creation to illustrate the principal of an early friction bar ignition system which by tradition was associated with the mythical monk , Bertoldt Swartz to whom is attributed the art of shooting with guns. Hence the generic name Monks gun. It is possible to imagine how such a device might have been applied to a 15 th century hand cannon with a wooden tiller. The thing fired by pulling hard on a lanyard attach to the friction bar . Equally the friction wheel and cord operated firelighting device as illustrated in the Loffeholtz manuscripts might have been experimented with . In practice either system probably proved more trouble than it was worth but did encourage the idea that friction ignition firing systems could be applied to firearms . The friction wheel system proved more capable of automation hence the development of wheelock and the rest as they say is history. |
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