Sumatra keris with ivory parts

Paul B. · 6th February 2022, 06:31 AM

Thanks. I do think both handle and scabbard are old. Looks pretty black and dusty from the inside. Notice the wide opening, it indicates that it must have had a blade with a wide ganja (in case the existing blade isn't the first one).
From the back we see that the ivory patch to the right is not in line with the warangka material. So I do not belief it is a broken part.
The pendokok looks old from the inside too. I gave it a polish which might give it a new impression.
The gandar is a replacement but not surprisingly. Wood is deteriorating soon in a tropical environment.

What about this blade? Like Jean's piece it has a silverfoil covered ganja. Does seem to have Malay features to me. Slightly curved. It comes with a Minang dress.

Paul B. · 8th February 2022, 12:55 PM

New suggestions are welcome concerning this keris.

Jean · 8th February 2022, 01:31 PM

The selut is Minang but the hilt, blade, and scabbard/ pendok rather look Bugis Riau or Peninsular to me

Other opinions are welcome

Paul B. · 8th February 2022, 02:08 PM

Same observations. Maybe the dress is additional, even if the ganja with silverfoil usually sticks out to demonstrate wealth. Anyway, to me still puzzling.

Paul B. · 13th February 2022, 08:25 AM

Meanwhile I know that handle and pendokok have been exchanged by the former owner. Preferably change it with an appropriate pendokok and a more upright handle? What handle would come into your mind Jean?

Jean · 13th February 2022, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Meanwhile I know that handle and pendokok have been exchanged by the former owner. Preferably change it with an appropriate pendokok and a more upright handle? What handle would come into your mind Jean?

I would not change anything as the origin of the keris is uncertain and the various parts match reasonably well, although the hilt is a bit oversized as compared to the sampir.

However if you prefer, you may fit a smaller East Sumatra pangulu hilt or anak ayam/ pipi teleng hilt, see pics.

Wijaya34 · 1st January 2023, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B.

New suggestions are welcome concerning this keris.

It looks like a 'rejang lebong' keris to me. These type of kerises are popular in the Bengkulu region of sumatra.

Gavin Nugent · 26th January 2023, 04:51 AM

I don't feel this is anything but Elephant ivory where the sampir is concerned... looking at the hulu, I suspect the same source.

I've a much bigger Sundang sampir with the same external recess seen on the one face. Unlike this example, it is a single piece. This led me to some deeper study some time ago, simply because of the size, I could see no other option other than tusk. Digging in to Sperm whale teeth, the largest sizes and the hollow underside just didn't add up.

Here are some images and a good article from which one of the images was drawn from for this thread.

Gavin

Linky; https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...2020+tusks.pdf

SidJ · 26th January 2023, 10:13 AM

I agree with Gavins comment. I own a couple of large sperm whale teeth. They are hollow. I cannot see how the hulu can be whale tooth. The scabbard is elephant t me. It is not whale tooth and not bone. The hulu is also likely elephant. Dugong may be a possibility too.

kai · 26th January 2023, 12:21 PM

Hello Sid,

All teeth that keep growing are hollow and have such a conical pulp cavity.

This hilt is way too large for dugong.

Given the cementum layer visible on both sides of the hilt (back and base - check first pics), I'd still vote for spermwhale - even if it would need to come from a really huge male...

If they had a good chunk for the crosspiece, I just can't fathom why they added additional material on both sides... (On one side only would be less work and look better IMHO.)

Regards,
Kai

SidJ · 26th January 2023, 12:34 PM

Kai
Sperm whale teeth have huge and deep hollows. I have a very large antique tooth from whaling times. There is no way there is enough material to carve a hulu from it. I think unless there is more to support sperm whale tooth this is only speculation.

6th February 2022, 06:31 AM	#1
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Thanks. I do think both handle and scabbard are old. Looks pretty black and dusty from the inside. Notice the wide opening, it indicates that it must have had a blade with a wide ganja (in case the existing blade isn't the first one). From the back we see that the ivory patch to the right is not in line with the warangka material. So I do not belief it is a broken part. The pendokok looks old from the inside too. I gave it a polish which might give it a new impression. The gandar is a replacement but not surprisingly. Wood is deteriorating soon in a tropical environment. What about this blade? Like Jean's piece it has a silverfoil covered ganja. Does seem to have Malay features to me. Slightly curved. It comes with a Minang dress. Attached Images Last edited by Paul B.; 6th February 2022 at 10:11 AM.

8th February 2022, 12:55 PM	#2
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	New suggestions are welcome concerning this keris. Attached Images

26th January 2023, 04:51 AM	#8
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I don't feel this is anything but Elephant ivory where the sampir is concerned... looking at the hulu, I suspect the same source. I've a much bigger Sundang sampir with the same external recess seen on the one face. Unlike this example, it is a single piece. This led me to some deeper study some time ago, simply because of the size, I could see no other option other than tusk. Digging in to Sperm whale teeth, the largest sizes and the hollow underside just didn't add up. Here are some images and a good article from which one of the images was drawn from for this thread. Gavin Linky; https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...2020+tusks.pdf Attached Images

8th February 2022, 01:31 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The selut is Minang but the hilt, blade, and scabbard/ pendok rather look Bugis Riau or Peninsular to me Other opinions are welcome

8th February 2022, 02:08 PM	#4
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Same observations. Maybe the dress is additional, even if the ganja with silverfoil usually sticks out to demonstrate wealth. Anyway, to me still puzzling.

13th February 2022, 08:25 AM	#5
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Meanwhile I know that handle and pendokok have been exchanged by the former owner. Preferably change it with an appropriate pendokok and a more upright handle? What handle would come into your mind Jean?

26th January 2023, 10:13 AM	#9
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 177	I agree with Gavins comment. I own a couple of large sperm whale teeth. They are hollow. I cannot see how the hulu can be whale tooth. The scabbard is elephant t me. It is not whale tooth and not bone. The hulu is also likely elephant. Dugong may be a possibility too.

26th January 2023, 12:21 PM	#10
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,233	Hello Sid, All teeth that keep growing are hollow and have such a conical pulp cavity. This hilt is way too large for dugong. Given the cementum layer visible on both sides of the hilt (back and base - check first pics), I'd still vote for spermwhale - even if it would need to come from a really huge male... If they had a good chunk for the crosspiece, I just can't fathom why they added additional material on both sides... (On one side only would be less work and look better IMHO.) Regards, Kai

26th January 2023, 12:34 PM	#11
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 177	Kai Sperm whale teeth have huge and deep hollows. I have a very large antique tooth from whaling times. There is no way there is enough material to carve a hulu from it. I think unless there is more to support sperm whale tooth this is only speculation.