Non Moro ,Mandaya? sword

Justin · 23rd October 2005, 03:19 PM

I won this little guy on ebay recently Im sure it didnt go un noticed by at least a few forumites.I bought it in the hopes that it was a Mandaya sword but if it is its definately a little unusual,very small about 20in oa and it has a long sharpened 'false' edge.

Tim Simmons · 25th October 2005, 05:34 PM

I like that.

slow · 25th October 2005, 08:52 PM

Based on my very limited knowledge, I could hazard a guess and call it a ginunting. The angle of the blade in relation to the handle and the "false edge" would hint in this direction. The handle seems a bit unusual for a ginunting, (usually there are finger grooves) but my experience is only with more recent pieces. A very nice looking weapon, nevertheless. Congratulations on the purchase.

zelbone · 26th October 2005, 05:26 AM

This one is odd...although I really doubt that it is Mandaya. The ferrule looks Visayan, but the pommel is odd. Bangkung, binangon, binakoko? Ginunting would be appropriate as well. Post better pics when you get it.

BTW, Justin, no hard feelings

!

Justin · 26th October 2005, 02:22 PM

Thanks ,Zel

Ill try to get better pics up within a day or two.

Bill · 26th October 2005, 03:09 PM

Doubt the sword is from the Philippines. The hilt has a Sumatra influence. The ferrule is simular to some Nias work, but a little crude. The blade form is pretty common. It could really come from many places in Indonesia, but I would look closer to Sumatra, then any where else.

Mark · 26th October 2005, 03:30 PM

I have an almost identical one that I have been trying to identify for years. It was my first ethnographic sword purchase, in fact, and the subject of my first-ever post on the EEWRS.

I don't have pictures, but I'll take some and post.

Justin · 29th October 2005, 05:51 PM

Sorry I havent posted in awhile,Im having car and computer problems so its been a little busy around here.

Bill:

I didnt really think about Indonesia but its an interesting theory,the horse hoof hilt does look very Sumatran to me.

Mark:Id love to see pics of your sword, maybe it will help narrow down the posible origins of these swords.

Justin · 11th December 2005, 11:33 PM

Sorry for the really long delay,here are a few more pics,hopefully there will be something in them to help provide a more definate id.

Ian · 13th December 2005, 12:25 AM

Justin:

I'd say this is somewhat of a hybrid of styles. The blade looks Bagobo, and the wood handle resembles some of the handles on Bagobo/T'boli work knives.

But the scabbard looks Visayan -- sort of -- and the small ferrule could also be a Visayan influence.

Probably central of northern Mindanao would be my guess.

Ian.

Justin · 13th December 2005, 01:48 PM

Thanks,Ian. Now that you mention it ,I think I know the knives you're talking about and it does have some resemblence.

The hilt/pommel seems to be what is throwing everything off I wonder if this could be a Bagobo or other PI blade thats been remounted?

zelbone · 13th December 2005, 03:23 PM

Interesting sword, Justin.

Honestly, I really can't give you a definate answer on this one. Bill, may be correct that it is Sumatran. However, I tend to agree with Ian that this could be a hybrid sword from Mindanao. I do have a bangkung with a similar blade that is sharpened on the back side at the the tip, but that blade form is found in almost all of the Mindanao lumad swords...Bagobo, T'boli, B'laan, etc. Of course that form is also found in the Visayas and Luzon as well as seen in the binangon, ginunting, and binakoko. The scabbard does look very "Visayan" in flavor as well as the ferrule.

One thing also to remember that there is quite a large number of ethnic Visayans in Mindanao. In fact they may outnumber the Moros and the Lumad now. It wouldn't surprise me that this could be a localized hybrid.

I'd also be interested in hearing what others would say especially with those more familiar with Sumatran weapons as Bill suggests. In any case, interesting sword you got there, Justin.

23rd October 2005, 03:19 PM	#1
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Non Moro ,Mandaya? sword I won this little guy on ebay recently Im sure it didnt go un noticed by at least a few forumites.I bought it in the hopes that it was a Mandaya sword but if it is its definately a little unusual,very small about 20in oa and it has a long sharpened 'false' edge. Attached Images

11th December 2005, 11:33 PM	#9
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Sorry for the really long delay,here are a few more pics,hopefully there will be something in them to help provide a more definate id. Attached Images

13th December 2005, 12:25 AM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,023	Unusual combination Justin: I'd say this is somewhat of a hybrid of styles. The blade looks Bagobo, and the wood handle resembles some of the handles on Bagobo/T'boli work knives. But the scabbard looks Visayan -- sort of -- and the small ferrule could also be a Visayan influence. Probably central of northern Mindanao would be my guess. Ian.

25th October 2005, 05:34 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	I like that.

25th October 2005, 08:52 PM	#3
slow Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 3	Based on my very limited knowledge, I could hazard a guess and call it a ginunting. The angle of the blade in relation to the handle and the "false edge" would hint in this direction. The handle seems a bit unusual for a ginunting, (usually there are finger grooves) but my experience is only with more recent pieces. A very nice looking weapon, nevertheless. Congratulations on the purchase.

26th October 2005, 05:26 AM	#4
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	This one is odd...although I really doubt that it is Mandaya. The ferrule looks Visayan, but the pommel is odd. Bangkung, binangon, binakoko? Ginunting would be appropriate as well. Post better pics when you get it. BTW, Justin, no hard feelings !

26th October 2005, 02:22 PM	#5
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Thanks ,Zel Ill try to get better pics up within a day or two.

26th October 2005, 03:09 PM	#6
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Doubt the sword is from the Philippines. The hilt has a Sumatra influence. The ferrule is simular to some Nias work, but a little crude. The blade form is pretty common. It could really come from many places in Indonesia, but I would look closer to Sumatra, then any where else.

26th October 2005, 03:30 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I have an almost identical one that I have been trying to identify for years. It was my first ethnographic sword purchase, in fact, and the subject of my first-ever post on the EEWRS. I don't have pictures, but I'll take some and post.

29th October 2005, 05:51 PM	#8
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Sorry I havent posted in awhile,Im having car and computer problems so its been a little busy around here. Bill: I didnt really think about Indonesia but its an interesting theory,the horse hoof hilt does look very Sumatran to me. Mark:Id love to see pics of your sword, maybe it will help narrow down the posible origins of these swords.

13th December 2005, 01:48 PM	#11
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Thanks,Ian. Now that you mention it ,I think I know the knives you're talking about and it does have some resemblence. The hilt/pommel seems to be what is throwing everything off I wonder if this could be a Bagobo or other PI blade thats been remounted?

13th December 2005, 03:23 PM	#12
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Interesting sword, Justin. Honestly, I really can't give you a definate answer on this one. Bill, may be correct that it is Sumatran. However, I tend to agree with Ian that this could be a hybrid sword from Mindanao. I do have a bangkung with a similar blade that is sharpened on the back side at the the tip, but that blade form is found in almost all of the Mindanao lumad swords...Bagobo, T'boli, B'laan, etc. Of course that form is also found in the Visayas and Luzon as well as seen in the binangon, ginunting, and binakoko. The scabbard does look very "Visayan" in flavor as well as the ferrule. One thing also to remember that there is quite a large number of ethnic Visayans in Mindanao. In fact they may outnumber the Moros and the Lumad now. It wouldn't surprise me that this could be a localized hybrid. I'd also be interested in hearing what others would say especially with those more familiar with Sumatran weapons as Bill suggests. In any case, interesting sword you got there, Justin.