FRINGIA - Page 2

cornelistromp · 19th February 2014, 04:22 PM

learned that this inscription Fringia has at present several variants of its interpretation:

1 It is a name derived from the Latin Frangere - split , broken

2 An abbreviation of words Fridericus Rex In Germania Imperator Augustus ,German Emperor Friedrich III or Frederick III called the Peaceful , the Holy Roman Emperor 1415 - 1493

3 An abbreviation of words;
a. Franciscus Rakoczy In Nomine Gentis Insurgit Armis ,Francis Rakoczy in the name of the nation to rise up in arms. Prince Francis Rakoczy of Transylvania 1676 - 1735
b . Franciscus Rakoczy In Nomine Gentis Impetit Austrian, Francis Rakoczy in the name of national Austrian attack. the same Francis as mentioned above under 3a.
=Francis II Rokoczi , please see Jim's post nr 30

because it occurs over a longer time span on (mainly) sables, they are perhaps all applicable.

best,
jasper

corrado26 · 29th August 2016, 03:53 PM

This English summery of a Long German article I found in my Archive section:

Regarding to the inscription FRINGIA one has to get like with the unorthodox idea that its dissemination in Hungary under the flag of FRANGIA(probably also of FRNGIA) from the East, and in a significant time interval, from the West with the characters FRINDIA /FRINIA/FRINGA/FRINGIA took place independently from each other. The inscription`s starting point, namely Italy, was the same one. The sign FRANGIA (and FRENGIA as well) might have been displaced by western blades due to two facts: the small quantity on the one and the decline of Italian blade exports into the Ottoman Empire on the other hand. But this theory has a snag ± it is not proved that Italian blades with inscriptions FRANGIA and FRENGIA have been produced for the Ottomans in the 16th century. However, sabre blades with a Jelmán, representing the Kilij type of the Seljuks, were used merely by the Ottoman, Hungarian and ± partially ± Polish cavalry. It is to exclude that the manufacturing of such blades in Italy was done after orderings by Hungarian noble men. In the light of the political and military circumstances, it is reasonable to suppose that the Ottomans provided
the Transylvaniansand Hungarians,standing under their guardianship at this time,with weapons.The blade cha-racters, appearing now and again only, did not make sense to the Hungarians. But they regarded the inscription as a rarity. The "Turkish-Italian" theory designed above can be persuasive finally after a successful search for remaining blades with FRINGIA inscriptions within Italy collections and former Italian production centers. Until then we have to refer to the compilation by L.G. Boccia and E.T. Coelho with the conclusion that especially Genoese blades with the sign FRINGIA would have guaranteed and supplied the Turkish weapon market.
corrado26

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 2nd September 2016, 07:32 AM

"Ferengi" and similar terms are Arabic names for European traders, or for Westerners in general. The name is likely derived from the Arabic word faranj or ifranj, or Persian farangi, meaning "Franks". In Ethiopia, ferenj or ferenji has the same meaning, as does farang in Thai. The source of the name is likely from the Byzantine Greeks who were the Westerners' neighbors; this usage spread to the Near East, Asia, Africa and even China. Greeks still sometimes use fragkoi (φράγκοι as an exonym for Western Europeans, and the modern Greek term ferengios (φερέγγυος, ο φέρων- εγγύηση, ο δυνάμενος να εγγυηθεί literally translates as "the able to guarantee (himself)", the trust-worthy, and not only in a financial way! The term was used as a partially derogatory term in India to denote the British.. Thus I suggest, simply put, it refers to a trusted European blade...

Matus · 2nd September 2016, 12:23 PM

Hello Ibrahiim,

this is the best explanation I have read so far (ranging from books to forums and sites). Thanks a lot for the linguistic and cultural excursion. It makes perfect sense.

Have a nice day,
Matus

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 4th September 2016, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matus

Hello Ibrahiim,

this is the best explanation I have read so far (ranging from books to forums and sites). Thanks a lot for the linguistic and cultural excursion. It makes perfect sense.

Have a nice day,
Matus

Thank you... and like Jim and Cornelistromp and many here I tend to net all of these probable descriptions altogether and where they fit allow the broader solution....

fernando · 4th September 2016, 11:51 AM

The Chinese called the Portuguese Folangji 佛郎機 ("Franks") in the 1520s at the Battle of Tunmen and Battle of Xicaowan. Some other varieties of Mandarin Chinese pronounced the characters as Fah-lan-ki.

“During the reign of Chingtih (Zhengde) (1506), foreigners from the west called Fah-lan-ki (or Franks), who said they had tribute, abruptly entered the Bogue, and by their tremendously loud guns shook the place far and near. This was reported at court, and an order returned to drive them away immediately, and stop the trade.”

— Samuel Wells Williams, The Middle Kingdom: A Survey of the Geography, Government, Education, Social Life, Arts, Religion, &c. of the Chinese Empire and Its Inhabitants, 2 vol. (Wiley & Putnam, 1848).

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th September 2016, 11:37 AM

But who were these Franks...?

Franks
(Redirected from Farangi)
This article is about the Frankish people and society. For the political development of the Franks, see Francia. For other uses, see Franks (disambiguation).

The Franks (Latin: Franci or gens Francorum) are historically first known as a group of Germanic tribes that inhabited the land between the Lower and Middle Rhine in the 3rd century AD, and second as the people of Gaul who merged with the Gallo-Roman populations during succeeding centuries, passing on their name to modern-day France and becoming part of the heritage of the modern French people.

Some Franks raided Roman territory, while other Frankish tribes joined the Roman troops of Gaul. In later times, Franks became the military rulers of the northern part of Roman Gaul. With the coronation of their ruler Charlemagne as Imperator Romanorum by Pope Leo III in 800 AD, he and his successors were recognised as legitimate successors to the emperors of the Western Roman Empire.

The Salian Franks lived on Roman-held soil between the Rhine, Scheldt, Meuse, and Somme rivers in what is now Northern France, Belgium and the southern Netherlands. The kingdom was acknowledged by the Romans after 357 AD. Following the collapse of Rome in the West, the Frankish tribes were united under the Merovingians, who succeeded in conquering most of Gaul in the 6th century, which greatly increased their power. The Merovingian dynasty, descendants of the Salians, founded one of the Germanic monarchies that would absorb large parts of the Western Roman Empire. The Frankish state consolidated its hold over the majority of western Europe by the end of the 8th century, developing into the Carolingian Empire. This empire would gradually evolve into the state of France and the Holy Roman Empire.

In the Middle Ages, the term Frank was used in the east as a synonym for western European, as the Franks were then rulers of most of Western Europe. The Franks in the east kept their Germanic language and became part of the Germans, Dutch, Flemings and Luxembourgers. The Franconian languages, which are called Frankisch in Dutch or Fränkisch in German, originated at least partly in the Old Frankish language of the Franks. Nowadays, the German and Dutch names for France are Frankreich and Frankrijk, respectively, both meaning "Realm of the Franks"

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 1st October 2016, 04:52 PM

Oh and by the way... Frankincense; It's also known as olibanum, and its essential oil is often called "Oil of Lebanon." It's commonly recognized western name, frankincense, is said to have originated from the Frankish (French) Knights of the Crusades who treasured it in large quantities. Voila!!

fernando · 1st October 2016, 05:55 PM

In a different semantic, if i may ...
Franquincenso = incenso franco (frank, as for real, in the case), or Olíbano, from the Arab 'al ubán' (the milk), with reference to the milky sap that comes out of the olíbano when cut. In fact an aromatic resin largely used in the making of parfums and incense; obtained from African and Asian trees from the Boswellia family.
Olíbano was one of the three presents brought by the three Kings from the Orient to the birth of Jesus.
Actually the appearance of Christianity empoverished the market of olíbano by the IV century; the desertification made the routes of caravans that crossed the Rub' al-Khali become more risky and the increment of incursions by the Nomads from the Next Orient contributed for the end of its trade by the year 300.

-

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 2nd October 2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

In a different semantic, if i may ...
Franquincenso = incenso franco (frank, as for real, in the case), or Olíbano, from the Arab 'al ubán' (the milk), with reference to the milky sap that comes out of the olíbano when cut. In fact an aromatic resin largely used in the making of parfums and incense; obtained from African and Asian trees from the Boswellia family.
Olíbano was one of the three presents brought by the three Kings from the Orient to the birth of Jesus.
Actually the appearance of Christianity empoverished the market of olíbano by the IV century; the desertification made the routes of caravans that crossed the Rub' al-Khali become more risky and the increment of incursions by the Nomads from the Next Orient contributed for the end of its trade by the year 300.

-

I lived in the Salalah region for 6 years and Mirbat is the key location for top quality L'ban or Frankincense. The locals collect it rather like rubber and make a small cut in the shrub collecting the white sap a day or two later. The Romans were big users and at the time it was worth its weight in gold... As you say the decline was in the first 400 years and parallel to the migration from the Mehrib dam in Yemen which essentially fell apart over the same broad period. The people of that region knew already the Frankincense route and followed that when they left . The shrub grows all over Oman however it is only cultivated in the south~ Dhofar region even today. The girls also use it crushed with orange juice as a herbal cure for stomach ache and sore throats...since it is full of tannin. We burn it every day here. It is an excellent defence against mosquitos and insects also....as well as a perfume.

19th February 2014, 04:22 PM	#31
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	learned that this inscription Fringia has at present several variants of its interpretation: 1 It is a name derived from the Latin Frangere - split , broken 2 An abbreviation of words Fridericus Rex In Germania Imperator Augustus ,German Emperor Friedrich III or Frederick III called the Peaceful , the Holy Roman Emperor 1415 - 1493 3 An abbreviation of words; a. Franciscus Rakoczy In Nomine Gentis Insurgit Armis ,Francis Rakoczy in the name of the nation to rise up in arms. Prince Francis Rakoczy of Transylvania 1676 - 1735 b . Franciscus Rakoczy In Nomine Gentis Impetit Austrian, Francis Rakoczy in the name of national Austrian attack. the same Francis as mentioned above under 3a. =Francis II Rokoczi , please see Jim's post nr 30 because it occurs over a longer time span on (mainly) sables, they are perhaps all applicable. best, jasper Last edited by cornelistromp; 19th February 2014 at 04:44 PM.

5th September 2016, 11:37 AM	#37
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Franks. But who were these Franks...? Franks (Redirected from Farangi) This article is about the Frankish people and society. For the political development of the Franks, see Francia. For other uses, see Franks (disambiguation). The Franks (Latin: Franci or gens Francorum) are historically first known as a group of Germanic tribes that inhabited the land between the Lower and Middle Rhine in the 3rd century AD, and second as the people of Gaul who merged with the Gallo-Roman populations during succeeding centuries, passing on their name to modern-day France and becoming part of the heritage of the modern French people. Some Franks raided Roman territory, while other Frankish tribes joined the Roman troops of Gaul. In later times, Franks became the military rulers of the northern part of Roman Gaul. With the coronation of their ruler Charlemagne as Imperator Romanorum by Pope Leo III in 800 AD, he and his successors were recognised as legitimate successors to the emperors of the Western Roman Empire. The Salian Franks lived on Roman-held soil between the Rhine, Scheldt, Meuse, and Somme rivers in what is now Northern France, Belgium and the southern Netherlands. The kingdom was acknowledged by the Romans after 357 AD. Following the collapse of Rome in the West, the Frankish tribes were united under the Merovingians, who succeeded in conquering most of Gaul in the 6th century, which greatly increased their power. The Merovingian dynasty, descendants of the Salians, founded one of the Germanic monarchies that would absorb large parts of the Western Roman Empire. The Frankish state consolidated its hold over the majority of western Europe by the end of the 8th century, developing into the Carolingian Empire. This empire would gradually evolve into the state of France and the Holy Roman Empire. In the Middle Ages, the term Frank was used in the east as a synonym for western European, as the Franks were then rulers of most of Western Europe. The Franks in the east kept their Germanic language and became part of the Germans, Dutch, Flemings and Luxembourgers. The Franconian languages, which are called Frankisch in Dutch or Fränkisch in German, originated at least partly in the Old Frankish language of the Franks. Nowadays, the German and Dutch names for France are Frankreich and Frankrijk, respectively, both meaning "Realm of the Franks"

1st October 2016, 05:55 PM	#39
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	In a different semantic, if i may ... Franquincenso = incenso franco (frank, as for real, in the case), or Olíbano, from the Arab 'al ubán' (the milk), with reference to the milky sap that comes out of the olíbano when cut. In fact an aromatic resin largely used in the making of parfums and incense; obtained from African and Asian trees from the Boswellia family. Olíbano was one of the three presents brought by the three Kings from the Orient to the birth of Jesus. Actually the appearance of Christianity empoverished the market of olíbano by the IV century; the desertification made the routes of caravans that crossed the Rub' al-Khali become more risky and the increment of incursions by the Nomads from the Next Orient contributed for the end of its trade by the year 300. - Attached Images

29th August 2016, 03:53 PM	#32
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,167	This English summery of a Long German article I found in my Archive section: Regarding to the inscription FRINGIA one has to get like with the unorthodox idea that its dissemination in Hungary under the flag of FRANGIA(probably also of FRNGIA) from the East, and in a significant time interval, from the West with the characters FRINDIA /FRINIA/FRINGA/FRINGIA took place independently from each other. The inscription`s starting point, namely Italy, was the same one. The sign FRANGIA (and FRENGIA as well) might have been displaced by western blades due to two facts: the small quantity on the one and the decline of Italian blade exports into the Ottoman Empire on the other hand. But this theory has a snag ± it is not proved that Italian blades with inscriptions FRANGIA and FRENGIA have been produced for the Ottomans in the 16th century. However, sabre blades with a Jelmán, representing the Kilij type of the Seljuks, were used merely by the Ottoman, Hungarian and ± partially ± Polish cavalry. It is to exclude that the manufacturing of such blades in Italy was done after orderings by Hungarian noble men. In the light of the political and military circumstances, it is reasonable to suppose that the Ottomans provided the Transylvaniansand Hungarians,standing under their guardianship at this time,with weapons.The blade cha-racters, appearing now and again only, did not make sense to the Hungarians. But they regarded the inscription as a rarity. The "Turkish-Italian" theory designed above can be persuasive finally after a successful search for remaining blades with FRINGIA inscriptions within Italy collections and former Italian production centers. Until then we have to refer to the compilation by L.G. Boccia and E.T. Coelho with the conclusion that especially Genoese blades with the sign FRINGIA would have guaranteed and supplied the Turkish weapon market. corrado26

2nd September 2016, 07:32 AM	#33
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	"Ferengi" and similar terms are Arabic names for European traders, or for Westerners in general. The name is likely derived from the Arabic word faranj or ifranj, or Persian farangi, meaning "Franks". In Ethiopia, ferenj or ferenji has the same meaning, as does farang in Thai. The source of the name is likely from the Byzantine Greeks who were the Westerners' neighbors; this usage spread to the Near East, Asia, Africa and even China. Greeks still sometimes use fragkoi (φράγκοι as an exonym for Western Europeans, and the modern Greek term ferengios (φερέγγυος, ο φέρων- εγγύηση, ο δυνάμενος να εγγυηθεί literally translates as "the able to guarantee (himself)", the trust-worthy, and not only in a financial way! The term was used as a partially derogatory term in India to denote the British.. Thus I suggest, simply put, it refers to a trusted European blade...

2nd September 2016, 12:23 PM	#34
Matus Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 35	Hello Ibrahiim, this is the best explanation I have read so far (ranging from books to forums and sites). Thanks a lot for the linguistic and cultural excursion. It makes perfect sense. Have a nice day, Matus

4th September 2016, 11:51 AM	#36
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	The Chinese called the Portuguese Folangji 佛郎機 ("Franks") in the 1520s at the Battle of Tunmen and Battle of Xicaowan. Some other varieties of Mandarin Chinese pronounced the characters as Fah-lan-ki. “During the reign of Chingtih (Zhengde) (1506), foreigners from the west called Fah-lan-ki (or Franks), who said they had tribute, abruptly entered the Bogue, and by their tremendously loud guns shook the place far and near. This was reported at court, and an order returned to drive them away immediately, and stop the trade.” — Samuel Wells Williams, The Middle Kingdom: A Survey of the Geography, Government, Education, Social Life, Arts, Religion, &c. of the Chinese Empire and Its Inhabitants, 2 vol. (Wiley & Putnam, 1848).

1st October 2016, 04:52 PM	#38
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Oh and by the way... Frankincense; It's also known as olibanum, and its essential oil is often called "Oil of Lebanon." It's commonly recognized western name, frankincense, is said to have originated from the Frankish (French) Knights of the Crusades who treasured it in large quantities. Voila!!