A very Strange Persian knife

AJ1356 · 12th November 2013, 03:05 PM

Sp today I bought a very strange knife, it is not strange because of its looks but what it is made of and by whom. The knife is purely decorative or ceremonial. I'd include pics but I don't have my camera with me since I have sent it out to take pics for another member here. The handle is made of lapis which is not that odd, but the blade which is about 12-15 inches is made of what seems to be a copper/brass alloy, the guy claims it is HAFT JOOSH [an alloy of 7 different metals, developed in the very very very old days, very strong and very heavy, but hard to work with, most items were cast, they later developed SEH JOOSH,(3 metals) still strong but earier to work with] but I doubt it. It bends and straightens itself just like wootz, and has an incription on one side. It is done in Safavid style and reads Bismellah e rahman e rahim, nasr u menallah wa fathun qarib, amal e Assadullah.(In the name of Allah, the most merciful the most beneficent, Triumph is from Allah and victory is close, work of Assadulla) What the hell, really?? . Did Assadullah ever made decorative items? that is what goes in my mind. well I have no idea, not being made of steel makes it more strange.

Richard Furrer · 12th November 2013, 06:30 PM

I do not believe that the "lion of god" was a person, but more of a title. I have a lion of god shamshir and the others I have seen are of different age of manufacture than the one I have.
As to the alloy elements in the blade...hard to say without a chem analysis, but most all coppers have trace amounts of other elements so unless they are of a certain level percent one could say it was just dirty/contaminated ore bodies.

Assadulla is an often coped inlay/overlay/engraving applied to raise the price of the item....this is an old cheat recorded in works written in the 1800's and is true today as well.

Ric

ariel · 13th November 2013, 02:28 AM

Assadulla belonged to the "guild" of swordmakers. Knifemakers were separate. Kind of lower class :-)

AJ1356 · 13th November 2013, 12:54 PM

I m not really concerned about the maker's name on the item, Assadullah is a very common name, I personnally know at least 4 guys named Assadullah. What makes this interesting is what is it made of. I guess I'd have to check its metal composition at a lab or something. But is is cool either way.

AJ1356 · 14th November 2013, 03:18 PM

Pictures

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 14th November 2013, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ1356

Pictures

Salaams AJ1356 What is your gut feeling about this item? I wonder if it is a rehilt made for the souk...The blade could be as you say for show or parade ... possibly Qajari... or a reworked blade that may have snapped ?... It is interesting since as you point out it seems to be a strange metal mixture.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

AJ1356 · 15th November 2013, 03:25 AM

Salaams Ibrahiim,
I don't believe it is a rehilt, I was thinking that as well, so I started picking to see if it is, and it was not. On the blade there is about 3 kinds of rust, reddish for iron, dark greenish for copper and a bit brighter green for bronze.

12th November 2013, 03:05 PM	#1
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	A very Strange Persian knife Sp today I bought a very strange knife, it is not strange because of its looks but what it is made of and by whom. The knife is purely decorative or ceremonial. I'd include pics but I don't have my camera with me since I have sent it out to take pics for another member here. The handle is made of lapis which is not that odd, but the blade which is about 12-15 inches is made of what seems to be a copper/brass alloy, the guy claims it is HAFT JOOSH [an alloy of 7 different metals, developed in the very very very old days, very strong and very heavy, but hard to work with, most items were cast, they later developed SEH JOOSH,(3 metals) still strong but earier to work with] but I doubt it. It bends and straightens itself just like wootz, and has an incription on one side. It is done in Safavid style and reads Bismellah e rahman e rahim, nasr u menallah wa fathun qarib, amal e Assadullah.(In the name of Allah, the most merciful the most beneficent, Triumph is from Allah and victory is close, work of Assadulla) What the hell, really?? . Did Assadullah ever made decorative items? that is what goes in my mind. well I have no idea, not being made of steel makes it more strange. Last edited by AJ1356; 12th November 2013 at 03:20 PM.

14th November 2013, 03:18 PM	#5
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	Pictures Attached Images

12th November 2013, 06:30 PM	#2
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	I do not believe that the "lion of god" was a person, but more of a title. I have a lion of god shamshir and the others I have seen are of different age of manufacture than the one I have. As to the alloy elements in the blade...hard to say without a chem analysis, but most all coppers have trace amounts of other elements so unless they are of a certain level percent one could say it was just dirty/contaminated ore bodies. Assadulla is an often coped inlay/overlay/engraving applied to raise the price of the item....this is an old cheat recorded in works written in the 1800's and is true today as well. Ric

13th November 2013, 02:28 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Assadulla belonged to the "guild" of swordmakers. Knifemakers were separate. Kind of lower class :-)

13th November 2013, 12:54 PM	#4
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	I m not really concerned about the maker's name on the item, Assadullah is a very common name, I personnally know at least 4 guys named Assadullah. What makes this interesting is what is it made of. I guess I'd have to check its metal composition at a lab or something. But is is cool either way.

15th November 2013, 03:25 AM	#7
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	Salaams Ibrahiim, I don't believe it is a rehilt, I was thinking that as well, so I started picking to see if it is, and it was not. On the blade there is about 3 kinds of rust, reddish for iron, dark greenish for copper and a bit brighter green for bronze.