Winter Project

Spunjer · 16th October 2009, 12:20 PM

i recently came across a kris that's in a terrible condition, and when i got it yesterday, it was worse than i thought. nevertheless, i thought that it will be worth it since it's actually a very old one; archaic as some of you might call it. the blade is 19 inches long, a heavy silver kakatua pommel and a unique ornated handle. it would be interesting when i'm all done with this.

Spunjer · 16th October 2009, 12:22 PM

some more...

the gangya ins crusted with rust, which is going to be the biggest problem. i'm hoping it's not as bad as it looks...

David · 16th October 2009, 01:03 PM

Wow, that will indeed be a project. Going to be a long winter i suppose.

Good luck with this and keep us posted. Looks like it deserves to be saved if you can.

Spunjer · 16th October 2009, 03:09 PM

well, they're calling for a long cold winter in our fave state, dave, hehe... It's definitely going to be a meticulous step by step project. I 've done either the scabbard OR the sword, but never on the same package.
another interesting aspect of the blade is how the asang is attached to the handle. Will take pics of this later on.
btw, has anyone ever seen inlays on archaic type kris before?

Bill · 16th October 2009, 04:11 PM

That is not what Cato refers to as a 18C. I believe it is Sulu late 19thC.
That really is a project, the rust looks pretty deep. Good Luck.

Jens Nordlunde · 16th October 2009, 04:59 PM

Hmm, it’s quite a challenge – but then again, a challenge is always interesting when it has something to do with you hobby – good luck.

mross · 16th October 2009, 05:23 PM

Looks very worthy of restoration. Slow and steady and I think the results will suprise you.

Rick · 16th October 2009, 06:14 PM

Do I smell Pineapple juice ??

Or are you going to try another method ?

Spunjer · 16th October 2009, 07:10 PM

here's the dilemma; the easiest way would be to remove the handle, but not knowing the extent of degradation, it would be a bit of a gamble. Using acid would be the safest route, but I reckon it would take a very long time. I'm gonna try something in between. In the meantime, I'd prolly work on the scabbard first.
I'm quite concern about the filework on this. I'm kinda hoping it's all buried in that rust...

Henk · 16th October 2009, 07:18 PM

I wish you a very long and cold winter. Looks to me as a great project.

Keep us informed.

Sajen · 17th October 2009, 12:09 AM

Interesting project and I think that the result will be a very good one.

Spunjer · 19th October 2009, 04:22 PM

been working on it here and there. i had a pleasant surprise when i shined the pommel. it's two toned, and appears to be the darker shade is swaasa...

as far as the blade, it is coming on right along, about three quarters done with gangya, and am glad it's not as bad as i thought it was when i got it...

this must've been so beautiful on its heyday. i know i mentioned at the beginning of my post that i just recently came across with this kalis, but the truth is, i've had this specific kalis in my crosshair for almost a year and a half. definitely this is gonna be labor of love...

Sajen · 19th October 2009, 05:02 PM

Look good already!

Battara · 19th October 2009, 09:24 PM

I have seen older kris with silver inlay before - wished I owned one.

Going to need a lot of polishing.

I think this an older kris blade, and I agree that the pommel has swassa on it. Keep up the good work..............

Spunjer · 19th October 2009, 11:23 PM

yo jose, yeah it's pitted where the rust accumulated, but i kinda expected that. my main concern was the rust eating right thru the thinner part like the pointy part of the gangya but fortunately it didn't.

question tho: any suggestion on how to polish this part? i'm using a nut picker to pick on the remaining crust.

Rick · 20th October 2009, 12:44 AM

What do you mean by polish, Ron ?
Remove the pits ?

Nice pickin' .

Spunjer · 20th October 2009, 02:35 AM

hi rick,
basically just to smooth-en the pitted area.

Battara · 20th October 2009, 03:15 AM

1. keep picking (not your nose though

)

2. what I mean by polish is using the different types of sandpaper,hard to soft.

We can email if you need more info......

Spunjer · 25th October 2009, 11:47 PM

well, so much for winter project! i got so obsessed with this kris
that i just have to see the end result.
first the scabbard:
my first thought was repairing it to the point were every crack is
puttied, but as i put it together and i begun to see her true form, i
decided to leave some of her more obvious flaws as it added character
to her complete form.

one of the biggest chips that was missing was the right below the
crosspiece. patching it would've been redundant since there were
obviously other parts that were missing ( a couple of nails and nail
holes on the band) that i have no idea what their purposes were.

as far as the band is concerned, i just tried to straightened it out
as much as i can by using a ball peen hammer and long nose pliers
since it was really thin and didn't wanna risk breaking a piece.. i
wanted to preserve the beautiful okir that's on it. to clean this part
i just used mild dish soap and warm water, then a coat of wax to
retain the patina. as for the rest of the scabbard, my original plan
was to re-stain it but decided to leave it as it is. so again, dish
soap and warm water was all i used, and liberally rubbed it with
renaissance wax. the nicks and scratches on it really added some
serious character:

Spunjer · 25th October 2009, 11:49 PM

now on the sword:
this is indeed one of the most beautiful kris i've ever handled.
whoever was the original owner must've been a very influential person!
every part of it was lavished to the hilt! to start of with the
handle. early on, i noticed swaasa on the pommel. notice how the beak
on the kakatua was accentuated with swaasa, and so were the
rectangular portion on each side and a strip running from the beak to
the tail.

i can see excellent okir bands on the handle, and after cleaning it
up, her true beauty popped out. not only was it meticulously put
together it also appeared that it has swaasa on it, alternated with
silver filigreed band, creating a beautiful contrast:

here's the view of the full handle. i don't think there was a band between the last ring and the pommel, but if there was, it disappeared a while back since the exposed wood looks like it has some age on it:

Spunjer · 25th October 2009, 11:51 PM

the blade was the worst part, especially around gangya area, as it was
caked with rust. one of my biggest concern was around the greneng. i
was worried that since it's one of the thinnest part, the rust
would've ate through it, but luckily it didn't. although it was
pitted, it was intact. as one can see, it's a simple design, common
for her age.

as far as the katik, it was heavily corroded. luckily it wasn't deep
enough to ruin anything, except for the obvious pits (the reddish tint is a reflection of my shirt):

there was really no sense in smoothing the pitted area, since i would
have to use some serious power tool to smoothen the area, so i just
left it as it is:

notice the inlays. most of the stars were intact. what was missing
were most of the two linear inlays that originally run along the
length of the blade, ending on the naga's head. fortunately, six of
the star inlays remained by the tip accentuating it.

Spunjer · 25th October 2009, 11:54 PM

overall, it wasn't as bad as i originally thought. main thing is i got
it somewhat close to what it was during her glory day! here she is
with her "younger" contemporaries

Spunjer · 26th October 2009, 12:02 AM

full views

close up of the blades:
top kris
22" length
1 3/8" wide

middle kris:
19" length
5/8" width

bottom kris:
20 1/2" length
1 1/4" width

]

and here she is. i hope that you all enjoyed it!
comments/critique are welcome

Sajen · 26th October 2009, 12:37 AM

Very nice and a good job! I agree with you by the blade, I think there is not more possible, polish out the pitting isn't possible witout ruin the blade. But I personally would do more by the sheat, real patina you can't destroy by cleaning the wood with steel-wool, this is my experience by sheats from indonesian keris and I also would fill out the missing wood at the crosspiece.
But again, a very niece outcome and a beautiful kris.

sajen

kino · 26th October 2009, 12:43 AM

Excellent work brah!
I think you made a good stopping point at leaving the pitted area as it is, not smoothing it out. It would've made it a lot thinner and possibly ruining it.
Congrats.

Rick · 26th October 2009, 12:45 AM

Freakin' gorgeous !
You did just enough, perfect !

migueldiaz · 26th October 2009, 02:27 AM

can't believe my eyes ... nice job

David · 26th October 2009, 03:55 AM

Beautiful work Ron and a nice old kris. I would think that it did indeed once have one more band of some sort between the hilt and the pommel and if you did anything else you might consider replacing that for continuity's sake. I'd bet that Jose could fashion something appropriate for you there.

I would also consider maybe some silver headed nails to fill those hole around the base of the pommel.

KuKulzA28 · 26th October 2009, 04:59 AM

Amazing skill... great work!

Spunjer · 26th October 2009, 05:21 PM

thanks all!
i've been contemplating on adding that collar, david, reason why i didn't attached the pommel permanently yet. yeah, you're right, that it prolly had a collar or maybe a ring at one point, but my assumption is that, it has to be fairly thin. if you noticed at the bottom of the pommel where the nails or pins were placed, it's in symmetrical positions so again, i'm assuming it was meant to show. a collar has to be fairly low in order for it to show, so a ring might be a logical choice. will talk to show this to batara the next time we meet..
going back to the nails or pins, it looks like where they were suppose to anchor on the hilt has eroded real bad, so if anything, a pinhead to cover would prolly be appropriate. yeah, lot of possibilities...
sajen, i'm pretty sure the scabbard is original with the kris, and with the kris being in a not so perfect condition (with the pittings), i reckon leaving the scabbard in its imperfect state would match the sword... (plus filling out the missing piece takes a lot of work

)...

16th October 2009, 12:20 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Winter Project i recently came across a kris that's in a terrible condition, and when i got it yesterday, it was worse than i thought. nevertheless, i thought that it will be worth it since it's actually a very old one; archaic as some of you might call it. the blade is 19 inches long, a heavy silver kakatua pommel and a unique ornated handle. it would be interesting when i'm all done with this.

26th October 2009, 12:37 AM	#24
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,498	Very nice and a good job! I agree with you by the blade, I think there is not more possible, polish out the pitting isn't possible witout ruin the blade. But I personally would do more by the sheat, real patina you can't destroy by cleaning the wood with steel-wool, this is my experience by sheats from indonesian keris and I also would fill out the missing wood at the crosspiece. But again, a very niece outcome and a beautiful kris. sajen Last edited by Sajen; 26th October 2009 at 12:55 AM.

16th October 2009, 12:22 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	some more... the gangya ins crusted with rust, which is going to be the biggest problem. i'm hoping it's not as bad as it looks...

16th October 2009, 01:03 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,027	Wow, that will indeed be a project. Going to be a long winter i suppose. Good luck with this and keep us posted. Looks like it deserves to be saved if you can.

16th October 2009, 03:09 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	well, they're calling for a long cold winter in our fave state, dave, hehe... It's definitely going to be a meticulous step by step project. I 've done either the scabbard OR the sword, but never on the same package. another interesting aspect of the blade is how the asang is attached to the handle. Will take pics of this later on. btw, has anyone ever seen inlays on archaic type kris before?

16th October 2009, 04:11 PM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	That is not what Cato refers to as a 18C. I believe it is Sulu late 19thC. That really is a project, the rust looks pretty deep. Good Luck.

16th October 2009, 04:59 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hmm, it’s quite a challenge – but then again, a challenge is always interesting when it has something to do with you hobby – good luck.

16th October 2009, 05:23 PM	#7
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Looks very worthy of restoration. Slow and steady and I think the results will suprise you.

16th October 2009, 06:14 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Do I smell Pineapple juice ?? Or are you going to try another method ?

16th October 2009, 07:10 PM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	here's the dilemma; the easiest way would be to remove the handle, but not knowing the extent of degradation, it would be a bit of a gamble. Using acid would be the safest route, but I reckon it would take a very long time. I'm gonna try something in between. In the meantime, I'd prolly work on the scabbard first. I'm quite concern about the filework on this. I'm kinda hoping it's all buried in that rust...

16th October 2009, 07:18 PM	#10
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I wish you a very long and cold winter. Looks to me as a great project. Keep us informed.

17th October 2009, 12:09 AM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,498	Interesting project and I think that the result will be a very good one.

19th October 2009, 04:22 PM	#12
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	been working on it here and there. i had a pleasant surprise when i shined the pommel. it's two toned, and appears to be the darker shade is swaasa... as far as the blade, it is coming on right along, about three quarters done with gangya, and am glad it's not as bad as i thought it was when i got it... this must've been so beautiful on its heyday. i know i mentioned at the beginning of my post that i just recently came across with this kalis, but the truth is, i've had this specific kalis in my crosshair for almost a year and a half. definitely this is gonna be labor of love...

19th October 2009, 05:02 PM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,498	Look good already!

19th October 2009, 09:24 PM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I have seen older kris with silver inlay before - wished I owned one. Going to need a lot of polishing. I think this an older kris blade, and I agree that the pommel has swassa on it. Keep up the good work..............

19th October 2009, 11:23 PM	#15
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	yo jose, yeah it's pitted where the rust accumulated, but i kinda expected that. my main concern was the rust eating right thru the thinner part like the pointy part of the gangya but fortunately it didn't. question tho: any suggestion on how to polish this part? i'm using a nut picker to pick on the remaining crust.

20th October 2009, 12:44 AM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	What do you mean by polish, Ron ? Remove the pits ? Nice pickin' .

20th October 2009, 02:35 AM	#17
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	hi rick, basically just to smooth-en the pitted area.

20th October 2009, 03:15 AM	#18
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	1. keep picking (not your nose though ) 2. what I mean by polish is using the different types of sandpaper,hard to soft. We can email if you need more info......

25th October 2009, 11:47 PM	#19
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	well, so much for winter project! i got so obsessed with this kris that i just have to see the end result. first the scabbard: my first thought was repairing it to the point were every crack is puttied, but as i put it together and i begun to see her true form, i decided to leave some of her more obvious flaws as it added character to her complete form. one of the biggest chips that was missing was the right below the crosspiece. patching it would've been redundant since there were obviously other parts that were missing ( a couple of nails and nail holes on the band) that i have no idea what their purposes were. as far as the band is concerned, i just tried to straightened it out as much as i can by using a ball peen hammer and long nose pliers since it was really thin and didn't wanna risk breaking a piece.. i wanted to preserve the beautiful okir that's on it. to clean this part i just used mild dish soap and warm water, then a coat of wax to retain the patina. as for the rest of the scabbard, my original plan was to re-stain it but decided to leave it as it is. so again, dish soap and warm water was all i used, and liberally rubbed it with renaissance wax. the nicks and scratches on it really added some serious character:

25th October 2009, 11:49 PM	#20
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	now on the sword: this is indeed one of the most beautiful kris i've ever handled. whoever was the original owner must've been a very influential person! every part of it was lavished to the hilt! to start of with the handle. early on, i noticed swaasa on the pommel. notice how the beak on the kakatua was accentuated with swaasa, and so were the rectangular portion on each side and a strip running from the beak to the tail. i can see excellent okir bands on the handle, and after cleaning it up, her true beauty popped out. not only was it meticulously put together it also appeared that it has swaasa on it, alternated with silver filigreed band, creating a beautiful contrast: here's the view of the full handle. i don't think there was a band between the last ring and the pommel, but if there was, it disappeared a while back since the exposed wood looks like it has some age on it:

25th October 2009, 11:51 PM	#21
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	the blade was the worst part, especially around gangya area, as it was caked with rust. one of my biggest concern was around the greneng. i was worried that since it's one of the thinnest part, the rust would've ate through it, but luckily it didn't. although it was pitted, it was intact. as one can see, it's a simple design, common for her age. as far as the katik, it was heavily corroded. luckily it wasn't deep enough to ruin anything, except for the obvious pits (the reddish tint is a reflection of my shirt): there was really no sense in smoothing the pitted area, since i would have to use some serious power tool to smoothen the area, so i just left it as it is: notice the inlays. most of the stars were intact. what was missing were most of the two linear inlays that originally run along the length of the blade, ending on the naga's head. fortunately, six of the star inlays remained by the tip accentuating it.

25th October 2009, 11:54 PM	#22
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	overall, it wasn't as bad as i originally thought. main thing is i got it somewhat close to what it was during her glory day! here she is with her "younger" contemporaries

26th October 2009, 12:02 AM	#23
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	full views close up of the blades: top kris 22" length 1 3/8" wide middle kris: 19" length 5/8" width bottom kris: 20 1/2" length 1 1/4" width ] and here she is. i hope that you all enjoyed it! comments/critique are welcome

26th October 2009, 12:43 AM	#25
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 975	Excellent work brah! I think you made a good stopping point at leaving the pitted area as it is, not smoothing it out. It would've made it a lot thinner and possibly ruining it. Congrats.

26th October 2009, 12:45 AM	#26
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Freakin' gorgeous ! You did just enough, perfect !

26th October 2009, 02:27 AM	#27
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	can't believe my eyes ... nice job

26th October 2009, 03:55 AM	#28
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,027	Beautiful work Ron and a nice old kris. I would think that it did indeed once have one more band of some sort between the hilt and the pommel and if you did anything else you might consider replacing that for continuity's sake. I'd bet that Jose could fashion something appropriate for you there. I would also consider maybe some silver headed nails to fill those hole around the base of the pommel.

26th October 2009, 04:59 AM	#29
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Amazing skill... great work!

26th October 2009, 05:21 PM	#30
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks all! i've been contemplating on adding that collar, david, reason why i didn't attached the pommel permanently yet. yeah, you're right, that it prolly had a collar or maybe a ring at one point, but my assumption is that, it has to be fairly thin. if you noticed at the bottom of the pommel where the nails or pins were placed, it's in symmetrical positions so again, i'm assuming it was meant to show. a collar has to be fairly low in order for it to show, so a ring might be a logical choice. will talk to show this to batara the next time we meet.. going back to the nails or pins, it looks like where they were suppose to anchor on the hilt has eroded real bad, so if anything, a pinhead to cover would prolly be appropriate. yeah, lot of possibilities... sajen, i'm pretty sure the scabbard is original with the kris, and with the kris being in a not so perfect condition (with the pittings), i reckon leaving the scabbard in its imperfect state would match the sword... (plus filling out the missing piece takes a lot of work )...