Maori Mere pounamu

kronckew · 30th June 2014, 10:48 AM

for comment:
27.2 cm. nephrite (jade)
est. at 3-40 yrs old. (how can you tell?)

kronckew · 4th July 2014, 10:32 AM

it arrived. 27 cm, 577 grams. nice 'n heavy.

(in-hand photo for size ref.)

kahnjar1 · 4th July 2014, 09:21 PM

Nice piece. Unless you got some provenance with it, age could be really hard to establish. The jade/greenstone is quite light in colour compared with others I have seen.
This link to Wiki might be of interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patu
Stu

kronckew · 5th July 2014, 06:16 AM

thanks, bought mine from a local (UK) antique dealer in an online auction. only info i had was it was obtained 30-40 years ago. (estate sale?)

the 'in hand' photo (my hand - tho it appears a bit redder in the photo than actual) shows the side with slightly larger 'lighter' areas. vendor did mention they were still being made today.

found a seller in NZ online that sells new ones, at quite a bit more than i paid for one a few inches shorter, they also mentioned that you could get it with a rougher finish 'to make it look older', which is cheating.

mine is very highly polished. there are, however, a small arewa of some shallow ripples, tool marks in the narrowest bit on the sides just before the pommel that were not smoothed out completely that i can just feel with my finger tips and can just make out visually if i look real close.

google images brings up quite a few museum/antique examples, darker (almost black) and lighter. seems to be a fair variation. saw some that were auctioned for 20 times what it cost me. they must have had some strong provenance.

kahnjar1 · 5th July 2014, 07:16 AM

Not sure if your NZ source is right by saying that rougher is older. Museum items are usually/most often highly polished, probably more so than "rough", unless of course the item is unfinished.
Anything for sale from here, apart from stated modern made items, is most unlikely to be old as the local Iwi (tribes) are repatriating their heritage when they can, and laws govern what can be exported anyway.

kronckew · 5th July 2014, 07:41 AM

one of the advantages of living in the UK is that <s>looters</s>, er... explorers from GB have been bringing artifacts back here for centuries, and they pop up in estate sales at reasonable prices when the relatives sell of the dearly departed's prizes as junk.

i am keeping my eyes peeled for a full sized taiaha.

in the last decade or so, the russians, greeks, and chinese are also reclaiming their heritage and driving auction prices up. some do occasionally slip thru their nets.

the flood of 'antique' chinese jade and bronzes (bronze weapons in particular) on e-pray are all new, as china prohibits the export of any real antiques.

i tend to work under the assumption that if i can afford it, it's not a real 'antique'. with luck, i get some 'vintage' items. and some tourist crud. but the occasional gem too.

ausjulius · 22nd July 2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Nice piece. Unless you got some provenance with it, age could be really hard to establish. The jade/greenstone is quite light in colour compared with others I have seen.
This link to Wiki might be of interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patu
Stu

hello you can tell the age of the mere buy a number of factors.
its weight , how sharp the edge is ,
how even the lanyar hole is,
if the lanyar hole is worked smooth inside.
the finish of the tool
the shape of the genetalia inspired pommel and finally the greenstone used.
the old mere were very carefully selected to be a free of fractures as can be . newer ones are just cut from chunks of stone and sold for looks , btu with a fracture one hit and its broken.

really the best way to know if its been around for a while is look in the lanyard hole if its a really good copy they still wont think to polish the inside of the hole.
but if it is hol and has been used the lanyard will poslish the green stone in the hole to a fine gloss. and this ont ware off from rough handling or some nut refinishing it.

as to mere made in the modern era of maori culture 1920s till now.. hard to say.. as really one made yesterday and one made 50 years ago are all tourist items and this age range dosnt really add any extra value.

30th June 2014, 10:48 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	Maori Mere pounamu for comment: 27.2 cm. nephrite (jade) est. at 3-40 yrs old. (how can you tell?) Attached Images

4th July 2014, 10:32 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	it arrived. 27 cm, 577 grams. nice 'n heavy. (in-hand photo for size ref.) Attached Images

5th July 2014, 06:16 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	thanks, bought mine from a local (UK) antique dealer in an online auction. only info i had was it was obtained 30-40 years ago. (estate sale?) the 'in hand' photo (my hand - tho it appears a bit redder in the photo than actual) shows the side with slightly larger 'lighter' areas. vendor did mention they were still being made today. found a seller in NZ online that sells new ones, at quite a bit more than i paid for one a few inches shorter, they also mentioned that you could get it with a rougher finish 'to make it look older', which is cheating. mine is very highly polished. there are, however, a small arewa of some shallow ripples, tool marks in the narrowest bit on the sides just before the pommel that were not smoothed out completely that i can just feel with my finger tips and can just make out visually if i look real close. google images brings up quite a few museum/antique examples, darker (almost black) and lighter. seems to be a fair variation. saw some that were auctioned for 20 times what it cost me. they must have had some strong provenance. Last edited by kronckew; 5th July 2014 at 06:38 AM.

5th July 2014, 07:41 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	one of the advantages of living in the UK is that <s>looters</s>, er... explorers from GB have been bringing artifacts back here for centuries, and they pop up in estate sales at reasonable prices when the relatives sell of the dearly departed's prizes as junk. i am keeping my eyes peeled for a full sized taiaha. in the last decade or so, the russians, greeks, and chinese are also reclaiming their heritage and driving auction prices up. some do occasionally slip thru their nets. the flood of 'antique' chinese jade and bronzes (bronze weapons in particular) on e-pray are all new, as china prohibits the export of any real antiques. i tend to work under the assumption that if i can afford it, it's not a real 'antique'. with luck, i get some 'vintage' items. and some tourist crud. but the occasional gem too. Last edited by kronckew; 5th July 2014 at 07:58 AM.

4th July 2014, 09:21 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,729	Nice piece. Unless you got some provenance with it, age could be really hard to establish. The jade/greenstone is quite light in colour compared with others I have seen. This link to Wiki might be of interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patu Stu

5th July 2014, 07:16 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,729	Not sure if your NZ source is right by saying that rougher is older. Museum items are usually/most often highly polished, probably more so than "rough", unless of course the item is unfinished. Anything for sale from here, apart from stated modern made items, is most unlikely to be old as the local Iwi (tribes) are repatriating their heritage when they can, and laws govern what can be exported anyway.