Is this an authentic Formosan Paiwan sword?

[yuanzhumin]

Hello Apolaki,

Sorry to deceive you: your sword is a nice souvenir but it is not the authentic piece. It is a little better than the ones made in the fifties to sell to the American soldiers stationed on the island, and that we commonly see appearing on Ebay.

Yours could have been made a little later, may be sixties or seventies. But it remains a piece made for outsiders, a folklore piece. If it was sold to you as an authentic one, the seller lied and this is a fake.

You can see it by yourself: the carving has been done awkwardly and the quality is not there; the more recent copper string used on the open side of the scabbard; the black/brownish slip added on the wood to make it appear like it is old and patinated; the poor quality of the wood used that already has split on the handle; the really bad quality of the blade; the use of shells (absolutely not traditional for Paiwan)...

By the way, your sword is in the Paiwanese style.

I advise you to read with attention the previous posts on this forum about authentic Taiwanese swords, check the pictures or look in specialized books to compare by yourself. I can give you some good book references if you need. But I think you will find them already mentioned on this forum if you search correctly.

If you are interested in an authentic sword, you still may find one on sale on the net or in Taiwan antique shops, but prices are high : you have to count from 800 USD to 7000 USD depending on the ethnic group (Paiwan, Atayal, Amis, Puyuma...), the quality or if it's rare or not.

Concerning the shipping, you'd better check with the airlines. Personally, I would never try in a luggage if it's something precious. Usual well known private shipping services could do perfectly as they have done well in the past for me with my Taiwanese knives, but I have to say frankly that i'm getting more and more problems with the customs.

Concerning the exportation of antiques, IN TAIWAN, there is no laws limiting it.

Best regards,

Yuanzhumin

[apolaki]

Is this a more authentic piece, do you have an idea of which tribe made this?

Thanks

[varta]

another item for tourists ...

[milandro]

Originally Posted by apolaki

Is this a more authentic piece, do you have an idea of which tribe made this?

Thanks

I have got in a deal one straight Tjakit which has been certainly made by the same maker , the hilt is exactly the same and on the ( straight) sheath ( not open) there are the same " tribal" signs.

Though no doubt this is (like mine) a modern blade, the blade itself seems to have been made well and mine is very sharp indeed

[milandro]

Originally Posted by milandro

I have got in a deal one straight Tjakit which has been certainly made by the same maker , the hilt is exactly the same and on the ( straight) sheath ( not open) there are the same " tribal" signs.

Though no doubt this is (like mine) a modern blade, the blade itself seems to have been made well and mine is very sharp indeed

Mine, currently for sale in the NL, so I won't show it here as long as the sale is up on a local classified ads page, looks very similar to this one found on David Atkinson's great source site . I am pretty confident that they come from the same maker


I am very curious of the process function of that small cylindrical piece of wood, which I think, is to secure the sheath to a belt but I am curios to HOW this precisely happens.

Mine has the same cylinder

The blade is really VERY sharp and although mine and these example shown here may be a modern production the quality far exceeds anything I have seen simply made to cater for the occasional tourist on a street market. The sword could be used in combat and as a utilitarian tool. It may not be hundreds of years old but it is a very good weapon nonetheless.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by milandro

Mine, currently for sale in the NL, so I won't show it here as long as the sale is up on a local classified ads page, looks very similar to this one found on David Atkinson's great source site . I am pretty confident that they come from the same maker


I am very curious of the process function of that small cylindrical piece of wood, which I think, is to secure the sheath to a belt but I am curios to HOW this precisely happens.

Mine has the same cylinder

The blade is really VERY sharp and although mine and these example shown here may be a modern production the quality far exceeds anything I have seen simply made to cater for the occasional tourist on a street market. The sword could be used in combat and as a utilitarian tool. It may not be hundreds of years old but it is a very good weapon nonetheless.

The cylindrical piece of wood with the holes for the cord is a type of toggle button, you can use it to attach to a belt, or a baldric.


I have a straight (and a curved) one myself, also well-made, chisel edged, sharp as heck, I read here in the past that the hill tribe smiths died off, and their children went to work in more lucrative positions in the city. At the time he posted here he said there was only on old man left making these for use by the tribes, and also for any tourists that came across him.

[milandro]

Thanks Kronckew, indeed this is very similar to mine and the one above.

I am rather positive they may be from the same hand. Many are dismissive of such pieces ad being for the tourists while, I believe, they are simply contemporarily made but that doesn't take anything away from they intrinsic qualities as a weapon or tool. They are well made and sharp and perfectly functional.

I am still not clear auto how this is attached to a belt though if , as you say, this is a toggle button, the entire weight of the sword (granted not much) would be supported by the rather flimsy piece of string (double though it is in my sword) and I can imagine that that would be a lot of stress for the string)


I decided that I can remove the ad and show the piece

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by milandro

Thanks Kronckew, indeed this is very similar to mine and the one above.

I am rather positive they may be from the same hand. Many are dismissive of such pieces ad being for the tourists while, I believe, they are simply contemporarily made but that doesn't take anything away from they intrinsic qualities as a weapon or tool. They are well made and sharp and perfectly functional.

I am still not clear auto how this is attached to a belt though.

I'm adding my curved lalaw style one below. It just has a loop you can put a belt thru that I added. The only pics I can find seem to imply the straight ones just had a loop that you could slip a belt thru, or a cord/strap thru the holes with 2 'tails' that could be tied as a belt. Some, like the lalaw, had a baldric, I'd make a baldric, one end with a loop for the toggle to be 'buttoned thru, the other decoratively wrapped around the scabbard below it. Or dispense with the toggle and just use a loop for the belt.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by milandro

... I believe, they are simply contemporarily made but that doesn't take anything away from they intrinsic qualities as a weapon or tool. They are well made and sharp and perfectly functional. ...

milandro, I think you have raised a good point about functionality. My experience with most of these contemporary Taiwanese pieces is that the blades are very poor and unsharpened. They probably would not retain an edge if they were sharpened. Such poorly made items are delegated appropriately, I think, as souvenirs for tourists. The (very) few that were of similar style and had decent blades with hardened edges may well be contemporary functioning pieces. What we see on eBay and other online sites are almost always of poor quality in my experience. I bought several when they first showed up online maybe 20+ years ago, just to see what they were like, and they all had junk blades that appeared to have been made by stock reduction rather than forged.