late XIV -Early XVI th century Swiss Degen

Cerjak · 12th February 2017, 05:31 PM

Degens are basically larger versions of the Swiss (Holbein) Dagger, These short swords seem to fulfil the same function as the katzbalgerr : a handy weapon for close quarter fighting.
O.L. 68 cm ; blade L. 52.8 cm; blade width at hilt 3.9 cm.
The examples showed in pictures are from the Reichsstadtmuseum
Any comment on it would be welcome.
Best

Any comment on it would be welcome.
Best

Cerjak · 14th February 2017, 11:34 AM

Detail of construction :There is an iron or copper lamella between the crescent-shaped pommel and crossguard

fernando · 14th February 2017, 11:58 AM

Jean-Luc, you don't have a catalogue COPY OF "WAFFEN IM SCHWEIZERISCHEN LANDSMUSEUM" ?
There you can observe thtee examples of Swiss deggen. All three have little different marks in their blades. I can scan them for you, as i think i also discern a little mark on the the forte of your example.

Cerjak · 14th February 2017, 02:09 PM

Dear Fernando,

I don't have this book and of course it would be nice if you could scan this page.It seems There is a mark in the blade but unfortunately is it indecipherable , the blade could be better cleaned but I would be afraid to do it.
Also the lamella is of copper .
The description for this dagger ( picture) mention the same detail of construction

Best
Jean-Luc

fernando · 14th February 2017, 03:01 PM

Let's see what i can do ...

.

Cerjak · 14th February 2017, 03:05 PM

Thank you Fernando !

fernando · 14th February 2017, 03:16 PM

Andreas · 15th February 2017, 09:48 AM

Two Swiss daggers with sheaths from the Boissonas collection’s catalogue, the one on the left (160) with mark.

corrado26 · 15th February 2017, 11:52 AM

I have a Swiss dagger in m y collection without these copper lamellas. Length is 345mm. It is nearly the same as the n°7 in the foto above.
corrado26

Cerjak · 15th February 2017, 05:37 PM

A SWISS DAGGER, 14TH CENTURY ( auctioned this year for 2250 € with fees)
in excavated condition, with tapering blade formed with a flat inner face, the outer of flattened-triangular section and flattened over the lower third, iron hilt comprising cross-guard with block-shaped terminals, elliptical pommel and hardwood grip, perhaps the original
20.5 cm; 8 1/8 in blade

12th February 2017, 05:31 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	late XV -Early XVI th century Swiss Degen Degens are basically larger versions of the Swiss (Holbein) Dagger, These short swords seem to fulfil the same function as the katzbalgerr : a handy weapon for close quarter fighting. O.L. 68 cm ; blade L. 52.8 cm; blade width at hilt 3.9 cm. The examples showed in pictures are from the Reichsstadtmuseum Any comment on it would be welcome. Best Any comment on it would be welcome. Best Attached Images Last edited by Cerjak; 13th February 2017 at 08:48 AM.

14th February 2017, 11:34 AM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	Detail of construction :There is an iron or copper lamella between the crescent-shaped pommel and crossguard Attached Images

14th February 2017, 02:09 PM	#4
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	Dear Fernando, I don't have this book and of course it would be nice if you could scan this page.It seems There is a mark in the blade but unfortunately is it indecipherable , the blade could be better cleaned but I would be afraid to do it. Also the lamella is of copper . The description for this dagger ( picture) mention the same detail of construction Best Jean-Luc Attached Images

14th February 2017, 03:01 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Let's see what i can do ... . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 14th February 2017 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Tuning up

15th February 2017, 09:48 AM	#8
Andreas Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ionian Islands, Greece Posts: 96	Two Swiss daggers with sheaths from the Boissonas collection’s catalogue, the one on the left (160) with mark. Attached Images

14th February 2017, 11:58 AM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Jean-Luc, you don't have a catalogue COPY OF "WAFFEN IM SCHWEIZERISCHEN LANDSMUSEUM" ? There you can observe thtee examples of Swiss deggen. All three have little different marks in their blades. I can scan them for you, as i think i also discern a little mark on the the forte of your example.

14th February 2017, 03:05 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	Thank you Fernando !

14th February 2017, 03:16 PM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638

15th February 2017, 11:52 AM	#9
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,166	I have a Swiss dagger in m y collection without these copper lamellas. Length is 345mm. It is nearly the same as the n°7 in the foto above. corrado26 Attached Images

15th February 2017, 05:37 PM	#10
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	A SWISS DAGGER, 14TH CENTURY ( auctioned this year for 2250 € with fees) in excavated condition, with tapering blade formed with a flat inner face, the outer of flattened-triangular section and flattened over the lower third, iron hilt comprising cross-guard with block-shaped terminals, elliptical pommel and hardwood grip, perhaps the original 20.5 cm; 8 1/8 in blade Attached Images