Ladrang remodelled?

[Pendita65]

Mr. Maisey,

thank you for the thorough explanation, and yes with my western view i did not think of all the rules in according the wear and use of the Keris in daily life in Java.
I have to find then a suitable dress for the Keris that i have where the Angkup was lost. Did you ever had a new sarong made for a Keris in Java? And is it allowed to bring a Keris blade to Indonesia for having made a new dress for it?

best wishes, Martin

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Pendita65

.
I have to find then a suitable dress for the Keris that i have where the Angkup was lost. Did you ever had a new sarong made for a Keris in Java? And is it allowed to bring a Keris blade to Indonesia for having made a new dress for it?

Hi Martin,

To bring it inside Indonesia won't be the problem but to bring it out again could become maybe a problem. Post Indonesia doesn't ship any blades out from Indonesia.
On the other hand, a friend brought a sword with me to Germany from Indonesia/Bali.

Regards,
Detlef

[Pendita65]

Hi Detlef,

does that also count when you go to Indonesia, and let a sarong be made to fit an antique blade so you take it with you home?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Pendita65

Does that also count when you go to Indonesia, and let a sarong be made to fit an antique blade so you take it with you home?

I think that the risk is minimal when you have the keris in your luggage, like I said a friend brought me a sword inside his luggage without any problem when he came to Germany.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, since 1966 I have entered Indonesia through Ngurah Rai airport in Den Pasar, more than 100 times, and I have entered Indonesia through Jakarta perhaps 10 times.

In 2018 I entered Indonesia through Ngurah Rai, I had with me about 20 or 30 keris and other antique edged weapons that I was bringing into Indonesia for restoration.

On my Customs declaration form I declared these keris & other items:- it is required to declare all sharp & or pointed objects, in certain circumstances this declaration can be interpreted as a requirement to declare such things as scissors or pocket knives, even the mini Swiss army knife that is about 2" long.

You must declare, if you do not, your undeclared item can be seized even though it is perfectly legal to own & carry in Indonesia.

OK. In 2018 I declared what I was carrying. I am 80+ years old, I dress as a businessman who is about to attend an important meeting, I speak Bahasa Indonesia fluently and I understand the correct way to behave.

The Customs officers who handled my declaration took me & my luggage into a private office and conducted a cross examination that lasted for around 2 hours. Central to the examination was the fact that I did not have Indonesian/Balinese police clearance to bring weapons into Bali.

However, I did have a NSW police document that permitted me bring edged weapons back into Australia, permitted the Customs officers to look at this document, but I did not permit them to handle it or copy it.

Eventually I was permitted to leave the airport and enter Indonesia.

I have also exited Indonesia on many occasions, sometimes carrying very large numbers of keris & other weapons. On most occasions I have not encountered anything but a cursory examination of what I have had with me, but sometimes the examination has been quite probing in respect of age and/or cultural importance of one or another item carried, on these occasions I have handled the matter in the traditional Indonesian manner.

On two occasions I have been detained & handed over to a highly ranked duty officer who has started our interview by insisting that I return to Jakarta and obtain the relevant export clearance documents. Again, these meetings have been settled in the traditional manner.

Indonesian Customs & other officials must not ever be taken lightly, to do so is to risk making your visit to Indonesia very much longer than you intended it to be, and/or very much more expensive.

[Gustav]

These posts will be my response to points made in post #18.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

1) Attached is the Candi Sukuh form referred to in post #9. The form from which this form is probably derived is quite similar to the form that we now know as Bugis, and can be seen in the Candi Panataran reliefs. See images.

The sheath from Candi Panataran relief is very close, one can say, of the same type, as the sheath of Pagarruyung Keris. I will leave it to viewer's imagination how much exactly this sheath resembles "the form that we now know as Bugis".

I fail to see the close relationship between the sheath forms from Candi Panataran and Candi Sukuh. Candi Sukuh can be interpreted either as Sandhang Walikat or as a Ladrangan, both readings endorsed by A. G. Maisey in these pages at different times. I would interprete the curved back part in Candi Sukuh carving as Godhong, part of Ladrangan sheath, because this Wrongko has carvings known as Widheng Kasatriyan, and I have yet to see a Sandhang Walikat with W K.

I cannot recognize a trace of Angkup in this carving.