Kubur Questions

Rick · 9th June 2015, 05:28 PM

Can any one of our newer firearms loving members tell me something about this pistol .
I haven't seen a lot of these guns; but I have yet to see another barrel like the one shown .

Any help is much appreciated; it's an old family piece .

Kubur · 9th June 2015, 07:48 PM

Hi!
I guess that I'm amongst the new friends.
I saw your previous post.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...figures+barrel
Ok I will tell you all what I know about this kind of gun.
I missed few years ago a pair of full brass kubur, with the barrels and the locks completly decorated like yours.
They were so strange that i didn't buy them...what a mistake!
I have seen this kind of pistols only in the Balkans, but It's impossible for me to tell you if they were Greeks, Bosnians or Albanians. If you observe the frizzen, the long vertical groves are caracteristic from the "Muslim" pistols from the Balkans, the (Christian-orthodox) Greeks prefered the plain frizzen without groves. Some of these pistols reappeared in North Africa, like the pair that I told you, brought from Algeria. As you see, I don't have any answer but some tracks...
Best,
Kubur

Kubur · 9th June 2015, 07:53 PM

Happy you
In my archives, I have on similar to those that I described.

Rick · 9th June 2015, 09:02 PM

Happy me indeed !

I'm very glad at least one other person here has seen such a barrel .
Thank you very much Kubur !

I was hoping to gather a little more information since we have many more antique firearms enthusiasts than when I first posted this pistol .

Does anyone recognize the stamp under the barrel ?
And this barrel having no band/s would have been seated in the stock with some sort of resin/tar ?

Norman McCormick · 9th June 2015, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Does anyone recognize the stamp under the barrel ?

Hi,
One of the marks looks suspiciously like the British Govt. broad arrow acceptance stamp though how this could be as surely the decor must have been cast at the time of manufacture. Perhaps a better image of that mark may be a help. On the other hand I have a Greek kariofili rifle whose barrel has markings for the Mutzig castle armoury in Alsace that I'm pretty sure didn't leave the factory with the incised decoration on the top. I'm of the opinion that the barrel was captured/looted/reused and decorated thus as an 'aftermarket custom job'.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 9th June 2015, 09:22 PM

Hi,
This is a section of one of the guns Kubur posted, it does look like stock removal has been used to create the decoration.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 9th June 2015, 11:32 PM

Hi Rick,
There looks to be the numeral 4 inside the broadarrow, if it is it may be an inspectors stamp. The attached photo is of an P1821 L.C. troopers sword of mine, probably early 1830's, with an inspectors mark.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. I can't remember when the broadarrow was introduced by the British War Office.

Norman McCormick · 9th June 2015, 11:41 PM

'28th July 1806. The Board having been pleased to direct that in future all descriptions of Ordnance Stores should be marked with the broad arrow as soon as they shall have been received as fit for His Majesty's Service; all Storekeepers and Deputy Storekeepers and others are desired to cause this order to be accordingly attended to, in the Department under their direction, reporting to the Board in all cases when articles are received to which this mark cannot be applied’

Hi Rick,
It was in use before this time but this order defined its use to this day.
My Regards,
Norman.

Oliver Pinchot · 10th June 2015, 02:33 AM

Rick, I've seen several of these with Serbian inscriptions.

Rick · 10th June 2015, 03:05 AM

No thoughts on the Maker's stamping ?

Norman, I'm not sure about the figure being a 4; it is far from clear and very light; in fact it looks more like a 4 in the picture than under magnification by eye .

Serbian; thanks Oliver .

The only other weapon passed down from him was one of those wedding nimchas from N. Africa .

Multumesc · 10th June 2015, 04:24 PM

Beautiful gun !!!

9th June 2015, 05:28 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Kubur Questions Can any one of our newer firearms loving members tell me something about this pistol . I haven't seen a lot of these guns; but I have yet to see another barrel like the one shown . Any help is much appreciated; it's an old family piece . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 9th June 2015 at 05:50 PM.

9th June 2015, 07:53 PM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Happy you In my archives, I have on similar to those that I described. Attached Images

9th June 2015, 09:22 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi, This is a section of one of the guns Kubur posted, it does look like stock removal has been used to create the decoration. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

9th June 2015, 11:32 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi Rick, There looks to be the numeral 4 inside the broadarrow, if it is it may be an inspectors stamp. The attached photo is of an P1821 L.C. troopers sword of mine, probably early 1830's, with an inspectors mark. My Regards, Norman. P.S. I can't remember when the broadarrow was introduced by the British War Office. Attached Images

9th June 2015, 07:48 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi! I guess that I'm amongst the new friends. I saw your previous post. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...figures+barrel Ok I will tell you all what I know about this kind of gun. I missed few years ago a pair of full brass kubur, with the barrels and the locks completly decorated like yours. They were so strange that i didn't buy them...what a mistake! I have seen this kind of pistols only in the Balkans, but It's impossible for me to tell you if they were Greeks, Bosnians or Albanians. If you observe the frizzen, the long vertical groves are caracteristic from the "Muslim" pistols from the Balkans, the (Christian-orthodox) Greeks prefered the plain frizzen without groves. Some of these pistols reappeared in North Africa, like the pair that I told you, brought from Algeria. As you see, I don't have any answer but some tracks... Best, Kubur

9th June 2015, 09:02 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Happy me indeed ! I'm very glad at least one other person here has seen such a barrel . Thank you very much Kubur ! I was hoping to gather a little more information since we have many more antique firearms enthusiasts than when I first posted this pistol . Does anyone recognize the stamp under the barrel ? And this barrel having no band/s would have been seated in the stock with some sort of resin/tar ?

9th June 2015, 11:41 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	'28th July 1806. The Board having been pleased to direct that in future all descriptions of Ordnance Stores should be marked with the broad arrow as soon as they shall have been received as fit for His Majesty's Service; all Storekeepers and Deputy Storekeepers and others are desired to cause this order to be accordingly attended to, in the Department under their direction, reporting to the Board in all cases when articles are received to which this mark cannot be applied’ Hi Rick, It was in use before this time but this order defined its use to this day. My Regards, Norman.

10th June 2015, 02:33 AM	#9
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 456	Rick, I've seen several of these with Serbian inscriptions.

10th June 2015, 03:05 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	No thoughts on the Maker's stamping ? Norman, I'm not sure about the figure being a 4; it is far from clear and very light; in fact it looks more like a 4 in the picture than under magnification by eye . Serbian; thanks Oliver . The only other weapon passed down from him was one of those wedding nimchas from N. Africa .

10th June 2015, 04:24 PM	#11
Multumesc Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 202	Beautiful gun !!!