Omani Sayf/Saif

colin henshaw · 4th November 2022, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The question that remains for me is wondering if it is possible that there were a number of examples of these conical hilt swords which were indeed a lighter, rebated group of weapons which were produced ONLY for performances. It seems there are numbers of these kinds of weapons in various circumstances for such purposes.

I believe you are correct here Jim, in that modern Omani swords are currently produced purely for display and dancing type purposes. Here is a fairly recent picture of Prince Charles (now King Charles) in Oman with such a sword. It looks pretty simple, light and quite flimsy suitable for dancing...

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2022, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

I believe you are correct here Jim, in that modern Omani swords are currently produced purely for display and dancing type purposes. Here is a fairly recent picture of Prince Charles (now King Charles) in Oman with such a sword. It looks pretty simple, light and quite flimsy suitable for dancing...

Thank you Colin!!! This is a PERFECT photo, and you can see the lightweight
blades. These are exactly what what used for the Razha ceremony, which was the sword 'dance'. Apparently part of this is having participants holding the swords vertically and vibrating the blades in unison, with large number at once, a notable sound from what I have understood.

These very simplistic swords were of the same basis form as the more ornamental counterparts that have been discussed with more elaborate decoration and using the substantial European blades. While of course they could be used in defense or other expected use, the likelihood that they were seems incidental. In most cases they simply were worn by merchants, slavers and officials as status symbols.

It has been a long haul trying to establish that with these conical hilt Omani swords, the old 'Highlander' movie adage, "there can be only one" does not apply

colin henshaw · 4th November 2022, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

While of course they could be used in defense or other expected use, the likelihood that they were seems incidental. In most cases they simply were worn by merchants, slavers and officials as status symbols.

I don't see this as being accurate Jim. The flimsy type sword shown above is a modern production, and as already discussed previously in many posts by others, the historic swords were made for and used in combat, this not being an incidental purpose as you state.

Jim McDougall · 5th November 2022, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

I don't see this as being accurate Jim. The flimsy type sword shown above is a modern production, and as already discussed previously in many posts by others, the historic swords were made for and used in combat, this not being an incidental purpose as you state.

I see what you're saying Colin. So what is needed is the history of the origin and development of this sword form with conical hilt(as we describe it) and an understanding of why this type hilt was favored. We know the Omani battle sword used in the Nizwa interior by the Ibathi had a guard, as well as some elements seen on some of the simple conical hilt (cuffs on some) of these open guard broadswords.

But what warfare were these intended to be for? That is what I have been trying to discover for many years. While you were there in Oman, and saw these in the souks or elsewhere, were any details given as to what sort of history they may have been involved in. Were there civil disturbances involving tribal warfare? Was Oman under attack and being defended by warriors armed with these?
These are serious questions that I have not yet found answers for, and am hoping perhaps your time there might have experienced some of these topics.

As noted, these were worn by Arab gentlemen in Zanzibar and in trade caravans including slaving groups, but as you further note, the display element is notable. I always picture warriors and combative forces in a different light than well to do merchants and figures of station of course. The 'long swords' used by Congo Arabs in Nyasaland mentioned by Teodor in a 'charge' is interesting, and wondering how these Arabs and the Omani's are connected, so that is worth looking into also.
Africans, as noted, are not typically armed with swords, particularly long swords, so that begs the question.

I dont mean these questions as argumentative, but recognizing you guys clearly have information that exceeds the level of research I reached a number of years ago, and really would like to get back into it with better perspectives.

colin henshaw · 5th November 2022, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I see what you're saying Colin. So what is needed is the history of the origin and development of this sword form with conical hilt(as we describe it) and an understanding of why this type hilt was favored. We know the Omani battle sword used in the Nizwa interior by the Ibathi had a guard, as well as some elements seen on some of the simple conical hilt (cuffs on some) of these open guard broadswords.

But what warfare were these intended to be for? That is what I have been trying to discover for many years. While you were there in Oman, and saw these in the souks or elsewhere, were any details given as to what sort of history they may have been involved in. Were there civil disturbances involving tribal warfare? Was Oman under attack and being defended by warriors armed with these?
These are serious questions that I have not yet found answers for, and am hoping perhaps your time there might have experienced some of these topics.

As noted, these were worn by Arab gentlemen in Zanzibar and in trade caravans including slaving groups, but as you further note, the display element is notable. I always picture warriors and combative forces in a different light than well to do merchants and figures of station of course. The 'long swords' used by Congo Arabs in Nyasaland mentioned by Teodor in a 'charge' is interesting, and wondering how these Arabs and the Omani's are connected, so that is worth looking into also.
Africans, as noted, are not typically armed with swords, particularly long swords, so that begs the question.

I dont mean these questions as argumentative, but recognizing you guys clearly have information that exceeds the level of research I reached a number of years ago, and really would like to get back into it with better perspectives.

Jim, Oman historically was always a fractious and violent place, with many tribal rivalries, dynastic struggles, uprisings etc. The countryside was/is studded with old fortresses, both large and small. Zanzibar and the East African interior, as we know, was subject to much bloodletting and violence, driven mainly by the slave trade. Even when I was there in Muscat, the rebellion in Dhofar was still current.

To further your studies on the subject, you need to equip yourself with a comprehensive library... the books by Chris Peers and Richard Burton are good. Chris Peers' books have substantial bibliographies. Looking at Ebay, there are a number of books listed there on the history of Oman itself which would be informative. Scouring the internet can also be of use. Oman itself was in fact once split in two - Muscat and Oman.

It was almost half a century ago now, but I can relate an anecdote... I once took an Omani friend (mixed Arab/African heritage) to the souk with me to help bargaining for a Martini-Henry I was after... he said in the past Omanis always went around armed to the teeth with pistols, muskets, swords, daggers etc. Judging by the enormous amount of redundant antique weapons then available, I could believe him !

Jim McDougall · 5th November 2022, 02:59 PM

Thanks so much Colin! It must have been incredibly interesting to have been there and experienced all of this first hand. As is well known, for quite some time over years I was researching and posting along with Peter (who wrote as Ibrahiim al Balooshi) here. There was considerable consternation in the discussions involving the character of these conical hilt broadswords, most of which derived from the focus of these used in the Omani 'dance' with swords in traditional ceremonies.

As he was in Oman for nearly 30 years as active British military with Omani forces, and was involved in the antiquities trade for much of that time, his observations of course in my view were well founded. As he had occasion to witness these ceremonies often, as well as being active with Omani forces, he was familiar with current and of course the earlier character of warfare there.
With the antiquities, most of his expertise focused on the khanjhar daggers, but of course extended into the swords as well.

It was in this context that my research in those years now a decade ago were centered. While most of the historical research revealed that these conical hilts seem to have derived in almost a simplified revival of much earlier hilt forms in Arabian context, they did not occur in this hilt form until the 1820s at earliest. Prior to this the Ibathi 'battle swords', with guard and much shorter blades were the primary Omani swords.

These swords prevailed in the limited regions of the very fundamental Ibathi Form of the Islamic Faith, which was situated primarily in the interior of Oman in Nizwa. The coastal regions of Oman, Muscat, were quite different as there were more options to foreign trade and influences. Here too, with the factor of trade, were Omani connections to its Sultanate in Zanzibar.

Here as I recall from research then, was where the Omani situation became more open to change from the more fundamental character in Oman, and the Sultan in Zanzibar began implementing changes in certain aspects of weaponry.

It seems as he began developing his more 'modern' form of Omani character, he included breaking away from the traditional form of Abbasid sword that had remained in use for quite literally a millenium, and adopted this new hilt style.
This was before the mid 19th c. and it seems that the Sultan of Zanzibar was pretty much dictating styles etc. to the Omani base in Muscat, which as you note, was quite separate from the Nizwa interior of Oman.
The sword 'dance' (Razha,, if I recall) was either begun or enhanced as part of his campaign to legitimize and to popularize his regime through regalia and ceremony.

While this is sort of a summarized version of what I recall of all this, I wanted to add it here to explain more of how my positions on these interesting swords developed.

The problems began when it seems there was confusion about battle sword vs. decorative status symbol/dance prop and the character of these being entangled.

As Peter often related, in the time he was there, Oman still remained a place isolated from the outside world, and the people there had little knowledge nor interest in its history. In many ways, it was virtually archaic, and not open to most contact. As I earlier mentioned, when I acquired my example of the 'kattara' (as they were incorrectly termed then) these were virtually unknown in most collections here in the US (this was in the 90s). The only data known on them was in Robert Elgood's "Arms & Armour of Arabia" (1994) and even there any history of these was obscure.

While I have the books by Burton, I need to get the one by Peers. Also, hopefully I can find a good history of Oman from 18th century on, which seems kind of hard to find.

Thanks again for sharing all this, and again, my interest is really piqued to go further in learning on this topic.

Jim McDougall · 5th November 2022, 04:42 PM

I looked in Elgood (1994 op. cit.) and found this, which seems to support the use of broadswords by the Omani's, but the hilt style is not noted:

"...James Fraser visited the Omani garrison at Ormuz in 1821 and described how these soldiers of the Imam entirely resembled the Arabs at Muscat. Of their arms he wrote:
The broadsword and target, their chief arms, were interesting, as bearing a strong resemblance to those borne by the Scots Highlanders; but their sword is edged on both sides. A few of these weapons are made at Yemen,but the greater part are procured from Egypt, whither they are brought from different parts of the Meditteranean. Many can be seen with the Solingen mark, and not a few with that of Andrea Ferrara, one of which I endeavored to purchase but could not prevail on the owner to part with it. These swords are sharp and thin, and previous to making use of them in an attack, they make them quiver and ring in the hand with a jerk, while held in an upright position, and then charge with loud shots".

I am curious about this event, and wonder if this was perhaps a diplomatic 'performance' for Fraser's visit, and the 'attack' was simply same.

5th November 2022, 02:59 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Thanks so much Colin! It must have been incredibly interesting to have been there and experienced all of this first hand. As is well known, for quite some time over years I was researching and posting along with Peter (who wrote as Ibrahiim al Balooshi) here. There was considerable consternation in the discussions involving the character of these conical hilt broadswords, most of which derived from the focus of these used in the Omani 'dance' with swords in traditional ceremonies. As he was in Oman for nearly 30 years as active British military with Omani forces, and was involved in the antiquities trade for much of that time, his observations of course in my view were well founded. As he had occasion to witness these ceremonies often, as well as being active with Omani forces, he was familiar with current and of course the earlier character of warfare there. With the antiquities, most of his expertise focused on the khanjhar daggers, but of course extended into the swords as well. It was in this context that my research in those years now a decade ago were centered. While most of the historical research revealed that these conical hilts seem to have derived in almost a simplified revival of much earlier hilt forms in Arabian context, they did not occur in this hilt form until the 1820s at earliest. Prior to this the Ibathi 'battle swords', with guard and much shorter blades were the primary Omani swords. These swords prevailed in the limited regions of the very fundamental Ibathi Form of the Islamic Faith, which was situated primarily in the interior of Oman in Nizwa. The coastal regions of Oman, Muscat, were quite different as there were more options to foreign trade and influences. Here too, with the factor of trade, were Omani connections to its Sultanate in Zanzibar. Here as I recall from research then, was where the Omani situation became more open to change from the more fundamental character in Oman, and the Sultan in Zanzibar began implementing changes in certain aspects of weaponry. It seems as he began developing his more 'modern' form of Omani character, he included breaking away from the traditional form of Abbasid sword that had remained in use for quite literally a millenium, and adopted this new hilt style. This was before the mid 19th c. and it seems that the Sultan of Zanzibar was pretty much dictating styles etc. to the Omani base in Muscat, which as you note, was quite separate from the Nizwa interior of Oman. The sword 'dance' (Razha,, if I recall) was either begun or enhanced as part of his campaign to legitimize and to popularize his regime through regalia and ceremony. While this is sort of a summarized version of what I recall of all this, I wanted to add it here to explain more of how my positions on these interesting swords developed. The problems began when it seems there was confusion about battle sword vs. decorative status symbol/dance prop and the character of these being entangled. As Peter often related, in the time he was there, Oman still remained a place isolated from the outside world, and the people there had little knowledge nor interest in its history. In many ways, it was virtually archaic, and not open to most contact. As I earlier mentioned, when I acquired my example of the 'kattara' (as they were incorrectly termed then) these were virtually unknown in most collections here in the US (this was in the 90s). The only data known on them was in Robert Elgood's "Arms & Armour of Arabia" (1994) and even there any history of these was obscure. While I have the books by Burton, I need to get the one by Peers. Also, hopefully I can find a good history of Oman from 18th century on, which seems kind of hard to find. Thanks again for sharing all this, and again, my interest is really piqued to go further in learning on this topic.

5th November 2022, 04:42 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	I looked in Elgood (1994 op. cit.) and found this, which seems to support the use of broadswords by the Omani's, but the hilt style is not noted: "...James Fraser visited the Omani garrison at Ormuz in 1821 and described how these soldiers of the Imam entirely resembled the Arabs at Muscat. Of their arms he wrote: The broadsword and target, their chief arms, were interesting, as bearing a strong resemblance to those borne by the Scots Highlanders; but their sword is edged on both sides. A few of these weapons are made at Yemen,but the greater part are procured from Egypt, whither they are brought from different parts of the Meditteranean. Many can be seen with the Solingen mark, and not a few with that of Andrea Ferrara, one of which I endeavored to purchase but could not prevail on the owner to part with it. These swords are sharp and thin, and previous to making use of them in an attack, they make them quiver and ring in the hand with a jerk, while held in an upright position, and then charge with loud shots". I am curious about this event, and wonder if this was perhaps a diplomatic 'performance' for Fraser's visit, and the 'attack' was simply same.