Mughal Katar

Aurangzeb · 5th March 2005, 03:39 PM

Greetings to all !

I am a 'newbie' here so if I make mistakes, please enlighten me so that I don;t repeat past mistakes. My son, age 13, is very much interested in, and a collector of Islamic weapons. We have purchased what has been described as an 18th century Mughal 'Scissors' Katar. From extensive research on the web, my son has estimated it's age at approximately 18th century. Basically my son is interested in opinions of others more knowledgeable that may either confirm or negate this estimate. I have included some digital pix of this Katar for your perusal. Any help would be MOST appreciated ! From past 'trolling' of this site we have been extremely impressed by the knowledge of it's users ! We're hoping that someone may be able to assist us in determining the accuracy of perceived information !
Thank you very much in advance for any help that any member can render ! Please see attached images of the 'Scissors Katar'

Justin · 5th March 2005, 04:32 PM

Welcome to the forum!

I am sure that someone more knowledgeable with Indian arms can tell you more ,but my gut feeling is that this katar is probably from the early to mid 19th century {1800-1850}.There is a lot of inlaying still intact and while it is possible that you katar was well cared for, inlaying is usually the first thing to go on a knife,it gets worn ,rubbed and scratched off fairly easily.Nice katar either way.

Rick · 5th March 2005, 09:42 PM

There are also many past threads on the katar from the old forum available through the search feature if you have not already used it :

http://www.vikingsword.com/cgi-bin/s...i?action=intro

Jens Nordlunde · 7th March 2005, 07:16 PM

Welcome to you and your son,
The kind of katar you are showing, are seen frequently, but not often. None the less, I think Justin is very generous to date it in the first half of the 19th century. There are some from that period - but still. This does means that you both should enjoy the katar - and go on collecting

.

All the best

Jens

Aurangzeb · 8th March 2005, 12:21 AM

Greetings To All !

Thank you very much for all of your replies to our initial inquiry regarding our Katar ! We are wondering if this Katar is considered to be from the Mughal era ?
As always, your comments are very much welcomed and appreciated !

Best wishes,

Mark Jr.

Jens Nordlunde · 9th March 2005, 09:55 AM

Hi Aurangzeb,

If there is any rust on your katar stop it with WD40, make a search for cleaning weapons, on this forum and follow the instructions, but be careful not to spoil the silver koftgari.
When I have finished the cleaning I use to give the weapon some solid car wax and polish it for protection.
Katars come in many types and forms, here is one of the more unusual. The outer blade is scabbard for the inner blade. Notice that the inner blade is quite a bit older than the rest of the katar.

Jens

Aurangzeb · 11th March 2005, 12:31 AM

Hi Jens!

Very nice katar.How old is it anyway?

Jens Nordlunde · 11th March 2005, 02:30 PM

Hi,

It is hard to tell how old it is, but my guess is 19th century, the inner blade is probably one hundred years or more older. Most types were made over a period of several hundred years, with only small variations, so a precise dating is very problematic. Even when a weapon has a year inlaid, this can not always be trusted, it can have been inlaid later, at the time the weapon was made – or it can even be a year fifty or a hundred years older than the weapon.
Notice also that some decorations can have been added later, so you may have two ‘types’ of decorations.
On the link you will find a katar with silver decoration a bit like yours. This is called a Garsoe katar and the characteristics for this type of katar is the way the side guards are formed – they are not straight http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001461.html these kind of katars come from Sind. You will find Sind in the western part of India, where the harbour town Karachi is.
Try to find old maps of India on Google; this will help you to locate the different places.

The katar shown is typically for south India.

Aurangzeb · 11th March 2005, 11:36 PM

Hello all!

Thanks For all your help with my katar.Hopefully soon I will be posting my kindjal.

Aurangzeb · 11th March 2005, 11:43 PM

He Jens!

By any chance do you know if Sind was A kingdom?
If so was it islamic or hindu?Also did they mint coins?

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 12:45 PM

Hi Aurangzeb,

You ask if Sind was a kingdom, the answer is yes and no, but you can read more about it on this link
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/S/Sind.asp just as the link also gives you information on the religion. Yes they did mint coins in Sind, try a Google search for ‘Coins from Sind’.

Try to search for ‘Wootz’ on this forum, and you will find a lot of interesting mails.

The best way to learn about the weapons is to see as many as possible, hold them in your hand and get the ‘feel’, notice the decoration and remember it. Ask the dealer about the age and history, but beware that some dealers don’t know much, but are very willing at give it a guess, without telling you that he is guessing. Buy books on the history of the land, catalogues and books on the weapons, and join the discussions on forums like this. But the best piece of advice I can give you is, always to be a bit sceptical, as it is not everything written or told which is the truce – good luck with your collection.

Jens

Aurangzeb · 12th March 2005, 01:00 PM

Hi Jens!

Thanks again for all your help!

5th March 2005, 03:39 PM	#1
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Mughal Katar Greetings to all ! I am a 'newbie' here so if I make mistakes, please enlighten me so that I don;t repeat past mistakes. My son, age 13, is very much interested in, and a collector of Islamic weapons. We have purchased what has been described as an 18th century Mughal 'Scissors' Katar. From extensive research on the web, my son has estimated it's age at approximately 18th century. Basically my son is interested in opinions of others more knowledgeable that may either confirm or negate this estimate. I have included some digital pix of this Katar for your perusal. Any help would be MOST appreciated ! From past 'trolling' of this site we have been extremely impressed by the knowledge of it's users ! We're hoping that someone may be able to assist us in determining the accuracy of perceived information ! Thank you very much in advance for any help that any member can render ! Please see attached images of the 'Scissors Katar' Attached Images

8th March 2005, 12:21 AM	#5
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Mughal Katar Question Greetings To All ! Thank you very much for all of your replies to our initial inquiry regarding our Katar ! We are wondering if this Katar is considered to be from the Mughal era ? As always, your comments are very much welcomed and appreciated ! Best wishes, Mark Jr.

9th March 2005, 09:55 AM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Aurangzeb, If there is any rust on your katar stop it with WD40, make a search for cleaning weapons, on this forum and follow the instructions, but be careful not to spoil the silver koftgari. When I have finished the cleaning I use to give the weapon some solid car wax and polish it for protection. Katars come in many types and forms, here is one of the more unusual. The outer blade is scabbard for the inner blade. Notice that the inner blade is quite a bit older than the rest of the katar. Jens Attached Images

11th March 2005, 12:31 AM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Nice Katar Hi Jens! Very nice katar.How old is it anyway?

11th March 2005, 02:30 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi, It is hard to tell how old it is, but my guess is 19th century, the inner blade is probably one hundred years or more older. Most types were made over a period of several hundred years, with only small variations, so a precise dating is very problematic. Even when a weapon has a year inlaid, this can not always be trusted, it can have been inlaid later, at the time the weapon was made – or it can even be a year fifty or a hundred years older than the weapon. Notice also that some decorations can have been added later, so you may have two ‘types’ of decorations. On the link you will find a katar with silver decoration a bit like yours. This is called a Garsoe katar and the characteristics for this type of katar is the way the side guards are formed – they are not straight http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001461.html these kind of katars come from Sind. You will find Sind in the western part of India, where the harbour town Karachi is. Try to find old maps of India on Google; this will help you to locate the different places. The katar shown is typically for south India. Attached Images

5th March 2005, 04:32 PM	#2
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Welcome to the forum! I am sure that someone more knowledgeable with Indian arms can tell you more ,but my gut feeling is that this katar is probably from the early to mid 19th century {1800-1850}.There is a lot of inlaying still intact and while it is possible that you katar was well cared for, inlaying is usually the first thing to go on a knife,it gets worn ,rubbed and scratched off fairly easily.Nice katar either way.

5th March 2005, 09:42 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	There are also many past threads on the katar from the old forum available through the search feature if you have not already used it : http://www.vikingsword.com/cgi-bin/s...i?action=intro

7th March 2005, 07:16 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Welcome to you and your son, The kind of katar you are showing, are seen frequently, but not often. None the less, I think Justin is very generous to date it in the first half of the 19th century. There are some from that period - but still. This does means that you both should enjoy the katar - and go on collecting . All the best Jens

11th March 2005, 11:36 PM	#9
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Thanks to all! Hello all! Thanks For all your help with my katar.Hopefully soon I will be posting my kindjal.

11th March 2005, 11:43 PM	#10
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Question on sind He Jens! By any chance do you know if Sind was A kingdom? If so was it islamic or hindu?Also did they mint coins?

12th March 2005, 12:45 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Aurangzeb, You ask if Sind was a kingdom, the answer is yes and no, but you can read more about it on this link http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/S/Sind.asp just as the link also gives you information on the religion. Yes they did mint coins in Sind, try a Google search for ‘Coins from Sind’. Try to search for ‘Wootz’ on this forum, and you will find a lot of interesting mails. The best way to learn about the weapons is to see as many as possible, hold them in your hand and get the ‘feel’, notice the decoration and remember it. Ask the dealer about the age and history, but beware that some dealers don’t know much, but are very willing at give it a guess, without telling you that he is guessing. Buy books on the history of the land, catalogues and books on the weapons, and join the discussions on forums like this. But the best piece of advice I can give you is, always to be a bit sceptical, as it is not everything written or told which is the truce – good luck with your collection. Jens Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 12th March 2005 at 01:05 PM.

12th March 2005, 01:00 PM	#12
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	thank Hi Jens! Thanks again for all your help!